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In what order do I sand and oil and paint then finish

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  • In what order do I sand and oil and paint then finish

    Well I;m just about done cutting my first project and I need info on how to sand the inside cuts and what number on the sand paper to get it real smooth. Then I have some tongue oil to put on it {baltic birch this time} Do I wipe it off and put more oil on it or do I sand inbetween? Then I will be applying antique medium mixed with acrylics to make it a wood color cuz thats what my daughter wants. I just need to know the order of things and if it applies to all woods {the sanding and oiling part} I like shiny smooth stuff. Do I shellac for a glossy finish this time of yr? Also do I need to use the tongue oil outside? I'm allergic to stuff

  • #2
    Karen how about posting a picture or two so we can see what you are attempting.

    I have never applied paint over tung oil. It might work if the tung oil is dry. I am just not sure how well it will hold especially if the piece will be handled a lot. If you want to attempt I would wait a couple weeks for the tung oil to completely dry. Today's finishes are non toxic once dry so you should be OK allergy wise. Make sure you wear gloves and work in a well ventilated area when you apply.
    Scott
    Creator of fine designer sawdust.

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    • #3
      Hi Karen,

      First off, do any sanding required before begining the finishing process. The number on the sandpaper will be determined by how much sanding is required. The lower the number, the more aggressize the grit of the sandpaper. I don't know what your specific project is or what type of sanding is required, so it's hard to get too specific, but for any sanding on inside cuts, I usually use small files or emery boards. The sanding should be simply to smooth out any bumps where you may have wavered off the line. If the cut edges of your project are rough, then I would suggest different blades next time. A scroll saw blade should be able to leave a smooth enough cut that sanding to remove saw marks is not necessary.

      Now to the finishing. If you intend to paint your project, I wouldn't use tung oil on it first. You could use a primer, which will raise the grain slightly and make the surface a bit rough. You can smooth this out with something like a high grit sanding sponge (220 or 320) or you can even use a piece of an old brown paper bag. Just rub over it to smooth the surface a little, without removing the primer. Then you can paint however you wish. Once the paint has dried, if you want a glossy finish, I suggest a waterborne polyurethane. Apply it according to the instructions on the container. It will go on clear and won't affect the color of your paints. YOu may need to scuff it lightly between coats. You can apply the waterborne poly either by brushing or spraying, whichever is easier.

      Oil finishes will tend to impart an amber or yellow tint and could affect the color. You could also use shellac for the final finish, rather than waterborne polyurethane, if you wish. Shellac is a difficult finish to brush because it dries so fast, you tend to get ridges and brush marks. YOu can spray it, but you will want to test it on a painted piece of scrap to make sure it doesn't affect the color of the paint. Even clear shellac will have a slight amber tint to it, so on light colored paints, it may be noticeable.

      Good luck!
      Homer : "Oh, and how is education supposed to make me feel smarter. Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain."

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      • #4
        So ok.. I don't have to oil it. I just thought the antiquing paint wouldn't be sucked up by the wood if I had something on it first. Using the paint you will be able to see the grain or lines thru it. The sanding I need is because I saw too slow and I'm always realigning to stay on the line so its not smooth and a couple of places need a slight reshaping.
        I'm making a candle stand from steve's free patterns. I have two types of sanding tools. one is a belt sander that fits in my saw and the other is a file that fits in the saw. Will those work to reshape and get the little bumps out or should I find a sanding sponge. Never seen one but i could call around. hubby has regular sand paper but my fingers aren't gonna fit in the inside cuts even though they arent tiny or anything.
        The project wont be done right away cuz I have trouble sitting in one place for long and I need to take care of my husband cuz hes disabled otherwise I'd post a pic. The edges seem to be ok. They aren't rough.
        I will pick up some water based poly and use that. I imagine I will need to do this outside and its cold brrrrr. The last sealing spray that was used for hubbys painting to seal it is still giving me reactions and I'm still airing out the house. Any other thoughts please post them. I will post a pic if I can figure out how to when I'm done and my daughter has chosen her wood color she wants.

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        • #5
          To add some more information for you -

          If you use the sandpaper to sand, start with a lower number, and work your way to a higher number sandpaper.
          If you are sanding baltic birch plywood, you may only want to sand with a high number (120 or 200) because you don't want to sand through the plys.

          As for painting - (I've painted on plywood for over 15 years...)
          Once it is smooth, you can paint on a clear coat (either spray or brush, depending on your project and number of holes you've cut). Let this dry and then "sand" with the brown paper bag. This will get rid of the fuzzies.
          Then you can apply the antiquing medium with acrylics. If the finish isn't as smooth as you want after that is completely dry (overnight) then again rub it with the brown paper bag.
          Once it is smooth - you can apply your clear coat (water based) over top.

          T
          Theresa

          http://WoodNGoods.weebly.com

          http://woodngoods.blogspot.com

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          • #6
            Karen,

            If you can't post a picture, please describe your project.

            It's hard to give suggestions without knowing just what you're dealing with, and it sounds like you need the simplest way to get the job done the way you want it, especially with being a caregiver for your husband and having limited time.

            And if this one doesn't come out perfect, I'm sure your daughter will love it because you made it for her. I know that my own kids don't look too closely at what I make.
            Carole

            Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

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            • #7
              Karen,

              By all means, try the sanding tools you already have. There is nothing to lose. The sanding sponge is simply a rectangular piece of foam with an abrasive applied to the surfaces. I wouldn't use them to try & remove material or for shaping the wood. They wear out quickly, but that makes them ideal for rubbing over surfaces to smooth the slight roughness you get when finishing. A brown paper bag serves the same purpose. Just go over the surface lightly.

              I don't think the oil provides any advantages in your situation and may well cause you problems. That is why I suggested using a primer. I'm not familiar with the antique medium, but as long as the primer is compatible with the paint you are using, it should work fine. You mentioned something about seeing the grain through the paint. Is this the look you are trying to achieve or do you want to completely hide the grain? If you want to completely hide the grain, then the primer will help you with this more than an oil would. IF you want the grain to show through, perhaps skip the primer, but be aware that the first coat of paint you apply to the wood will feel rough when it dries. This where rubbing it out with the sanding sponge or brown paper bag will help smooth the surface without removing much of the paint.

              Waterborne poly will have less odor to it, so you may be able to apply it indoors. There will still be some odor, but not nearly as strong or as lingering as oil or lacquer. Everyone's sensitivity to these odors is different, so try to do it in an area that has a window, so you can keep fresh air circulating.
              Homer : "Oh, and how is education supposed to make me feel smarter. Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain."

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              • #8
                Well this insert picture wanted a webpage link and I don't have a webpage so I put in in the picture gallery here. I have no idea how to find it but i did copy the link down when it put it in there so I guess I will insert that link. boy this could have been made easier like just let me upload the photo on this reply thingy lol.

                well that doesn't look right. maybe you guys can find it.

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                • #9
                  Karen, click on "manage attachments" and select the picture you want to post, then click "upload". When that's done, close the window and preview the post to be sure it worked.

                  Assuming that you have a standard picture, it should work really easily. Try it and let us know what happens.
                  Carole

                  Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    well I don't see it but maybe I'm not supposed to. I went advanced clicked browse it put the picture underneath below the browse buttons to upload but there was nothing to click like ok so I just don't understand how it works. So if it is not in this post when I submit it I'm done lol. I'm frustrated and tired of trying. Sorry I tried. If it's there great! Then you can see I've only go the inside cuts done. I don't know if you can see the pattern lines or not they are thin and light colored.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bill Wilson View Post
                      Karen,

                      By all means, try the sanding tools you already have. There is nothing to lose. The sanding sponge is simply a rectangular piece of foam with an abrasive applied to the surfaces. I wouldn't use them to try & remove material or for shaping the wood. They wear out quickly, but that makes them ideal for rubbing over surfaces to smooth the slight roughness you get when finishing. A brown paper bag serves the same purpose. Just go over the surface lightly.

                      I don't think the oil provides any advantages in your situation and may well cause you problems. That is why I suggested using a primer. I'm not familiar with the antique medium, but as long as the primer is compatible with the paint you are using, it should work fine. You mentioned something about seeing the grain through the paint. Is this the look you are trying to achieve or do you want to completely hide the grain? If you want to completely hide the grain, then the primer will help you with this more than an oil would. IF you want the grain to show through, perhaps skip the primer, but be aware that the first coat of paint you apply to the wood will feel rough when it dries. This where rubbing it out with the sanding sponge or brown paper bag will help smooth the surface without removing much of the paint.

                      Waterborne poly will have less odor to it, so you may be able to apply it indoors. There will still be some odor, but not nearly as strong or as lingering as oil or lacquer. Everyone's sensitivity to these odors is different, so try to do it in an area that has a window, so you can keep fresh air circulating.
                      Thanks Bill My daughter does want the grain lines showing so that's why I am using the medium with the acrylics. When I feel more confident in my cutting abilities and save up some bucks I'll make her one out of mahogany which is what she likes. The baltic birch is for practicing and for a couple mini clocks I will be painting and for some outside projects.

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                      • #12
                        Sorry I was not around. I see you figured out how to post a pic. If you ever have problems post a question and one of us will be happy to help. You are in good hands with bill and T with the finishing question you posed.
                        "Still Montana Mike"

                        "Don't worry about old age--it doesn't last that long."
                        Mike's Wood-n-Things LLC

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                        • #13
                          No problem Mike. I just wasn't familiar with how stuff worked. It was more or less a pain on my end cuz i had to resize the pic and i have to use 2 diff software programs to do it. My camera software doesn't have resize capabilities so I have to use another one for that and it takes me forever to find my pics when I save them lol.
                          I want to thank e1 who gave me some answers and ideas. I appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. This site has helped more than you know. Thanks again!

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                          • #14
                            Just a thought if you want the grain to show. Mix your paint with water to a milk consistency, then apply. It will put color on the wood, it will leave it a bit rough so it needs the brown paper bag or some 320 or higher sanding, and it will leave the grain showing. Stain will get you to the same place, and some use fabric or food coloring. Saman makes a line of wood stains that go on evenly. If you want mahogany then cover the Baltic Birch with the mahogany color diuted and let dry, then come back with the other colors in diluted form. Sheila Landry had a tutorial on painting. Try Sheila Landry Designs and she has a web site. If nothing else, call her.

                            The obvious caveat in all this is try it on some scraps and play with it until you get the result you are after.

                            If you are sanding interior cuts you can use your files and sanding blades, a spiral blade, an emery board or a tiny steel file available in hobby shops. Sometimes sanding sealer really helps seal the surface and makes it easier to get rid of fuzzies, but it is lacquer and needs to be applied outside, but dries quite quickly.
                            Last edited by Terry Jay; 01-31-2012, 10:35 PM.
                            Got Moose?

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