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  • Finish Question: Advanced topic

    Hi:

    Niece has registered a butterfly pattern for her and future husband's serving dishes. To match basic platters and serving bowls, I made the following from a Patrick Spielman's pattern (walnut, cherry, ash):



    Expect dishes at about 350 degree F (180-190 C.) This will cause many finishes to discolor due to heat. Also have to expect food spillage on finish.

    Checked with reference book I have, and it suggests avoiding BLO, Danish Oil, shellac, and Cell. Nitrate Lacquer for this application. The best is Conversion Finishes such as Pre-Cat. Lacquer, and so forth. Looked these up, and no way am I using these in a closed basement environment. MSDS for pre-cat lacquer some what on the somber side.

    I should add I am a lacquer snob, and am very much a shellac and lacquer chauvinist. I haven't stooped to straight poly varnish in about 10 years.

    However, the heat problem leaves only spray poly for option(s). Have looked, but options too many and no label gives info for such applications. I have no idea about the water based fast drying varnishes and how they would work in my air brush. I keep reading that the resin molecules are quite large and have a problem with HVLP systems. If HVLP has problems, my poor air brush will have fits.

    Any advice?

    Phil

  • #2
    Radiator paint?




    Gill (I'll get me hat an' coat...)
    There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted.
    (Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)

    Comment


    • #3
      Phil

      May I ask where in the world did you hear not to use BLO or Danish oil. I ask this because the 20 something years I have been scrolling I have made countless collapsible baskets and they can be layed flat and converted to hot plates and have made them out of oak, maple , mahagany and finished them all with a coat of Danish oil and have never had one come back to me with a complaint. Others I know also do the same thing. You could always leave them natural and use a olive oil or such . Such as cutting boards.
      John T.

      Comment


      • #4
        JT:

        Bob Flexner's book "Understanding Wood Finishing" Rodale Press 1994 edition.

        Entire chapter 13 deals with finish selection. Looking at 'Heat Resistance' of finishes: All oil based finishes, (BLO, Walnut, Danish, tung, etc.) rated a 3 (out of 5). Shellac rated 1 and Wax rated 0. Water based finishes (1994 only had new WB lacquer on market) and Nitrocellulose Lacquer both rated a 2. Most varnishes rated a 4. Conversion Finishes and some Polyurethane finishes rated a 5 (the best.)

        Gill:

        Sorry, Ma'm. Folk about these here parts be calling that there paint Bar-B-Q paint. Right powerful black paint it be. There just be times when the old, black grill gets a tad on the hot side and the paint just sort of bubbles and peels off.

        Gosh, on our side of the lake, a man cann't call his-self a proper down home type if he cann't turn a proper rack of short ribs into a blacken mess of charred meat and sticky burned sauce.

        {pause for old man to cough and wheeze}

        Natual like, if a man does it just correctly enough, ya' see, like burn the ribs too often, and having to re-paint the Bar-B-Q a couple of times, the little Misses stops a guy cold when ever he tries to cook Bar-B-Q again. He gets sent to the lounge chair with a cold brew and told to stay away from the food as the little Misses will do the honors. {pause again} Yes ma'm, a cold brew and a soft lounge chair, now that's how to enjoy a Bar-B-Q.

        Phil

        Comment


        • #5
          Covering the bases

          Once again Phil you seem to cover all the bases.

          All I need now is a nice blood pudding, spotted dick and a pint of bitter.
          CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
          "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
          Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CanadianScroller
            All I need now is a nice blood pudding, spotted dick and a pint of bitter.
            Okay yet more terms that have missed me up here in the frozen north. "Spotted Dick", I must dare to ask what in blazes that is?
            Todd

            Hawk G4, Dremel 1800

            Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

            Comment


            • #7
              more NorthEast

              That is an English dish. A steamed suet pudding with raisins. Yummy with custard
              CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
              "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
              Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

              Comment


              • #8
                OK Phil I see you sort of answered your own question. I went back to reread your initial question and I guess I do not understand it. So in that case I will butt out. I will say this I will continue to finish the trivets off the way I have been and feel good about it. I guess a 3 out of 5 is not that bad because I am just an average guy. Good luck in your quest for the right finish. I gues I need to reread Bob's book again.
                John T.

                Comment


                • #9
                  John:

                  Please don't butt out. I am not a finishing expert. I am asking for comments and advise. Your opinion on using oil based finishes is valid.

                  Since I was doing a trivet in wood, I looked up some reference on finishes and heat. You saw what I got. I checked with some people who had solid wood trivets and their trivets all had darken spots. I could not tell if the darken areas were caused by heat, acid food spills, natural aging or what.

                  I find finishing a project a very stressful time. I find a method that works, and I stick to it. To search out a new technique, product, procedure just gives me fits. I can, and have, spent weeks looking and testing for a specific finish for a project.

                  For me at least it works like this:
                  Cutting basic stock, thickness planning, rough sanding---Make an error and loss of a few minutes of work and cost of wood.

                  Cutting stock, initial layout and so forth---Make an error and loss of hours and cost of wood.

                  As the project progress, more and more hours are invested into project thus a greater loss. Craftsmanship sometimes is all about knowing how to fix an error to minimize the loss of time and money. By the time of final assembly an error could mean loss of many man-days of work. An error discovered after glue up could be a disaster.

                  When it comes to sanding and finishing, well it is just stressful for me. Too many of my projects have lost what I wanted, due to finishing problems. A few finishing errors can be corrected, some sanded down to bare wood and new finishing applied, but a few cannot be fixed and all my effort is lost.

                  That is why I stick to tried and true methods of finishing. By far, most of my current projects are just given a bath in BLO which is perfect for fretwork. However, when I must seek out new finishing products or techniques, like finishing a graphic puzzle or in this case, I ask and try and ask again until I have the product and technique I want. But, it still a very stressful time in the project cycle for me.

                  My final thought: In the conflict between Style and Substance, it has been a complete rout by the forces of Style. I am among the Substance rear guard as I strive for quality workmanship in my projects. However, I know in my heart that more Oh-h s and Ah-h s will come from the finish than a near perfect hand cut dovetail joint. One of the reasons I started scroll sawing is there are times with a scroll saw fretwork project, the finish is reduced to tier 2 level compared to the effort and detail of the cutting.

                  Thanks John for your input.

                  Phil
                  Last edited by GrayBeard Phil; 06-23-2005, 06:37 AM. Reason: add a thought

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Phil

                    Not a problem but sorry I can not help in this area for I have never used the products you have mentioned. I know I am going to open a can of worms here but have to ask how thick are these pieces?? The reason I ask I forsee a problem with the antenni. Look fragile for a pieces that will be handled alot. Plus the wiping and such. Just a thought.
                    John T.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The height, or thickness, ranges from 3/8 inch to 1/4 inch.

                      Yes, the antenni are fragile. They most likely will break off at some point in time. If my niece ever decides to have kids, well.... let's just say I do remember her during the 'terrible two' year (plus a few months) and payback is coming according to my sister.

                      Just the way I choose to layout the grain direction, either the antenni are weak or where the body meets the wings. I flipped a coin.

                      Phil

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