Question about tilting head saws

[Jimern]

And no annoying dust collection holes, for little pieces to catch on, right?

Since tilt arm style saws are my personal favorite . . . I can criticize it right? I hate the freaking dust collection mechanism on my King, and prefer the table on the older Green EX that didn't have that.

I have a Taiwan era Excaliber too, and I also hated the dust collection holes in the table top.

I bought a magnetic sheet from Amazon, sorry it was so long ago I do not have a link, and put it on the table top. I thought it would not stick, I was going to use double sided tape, but when I put it on, it worked.

[cwmagee]

That definitely is a distinct possibility. The other thought that came to mind was: When the PEGAS Scroll saw hit the market, I remember reading that they beefed up the EX21 frame design, I don't know what that modification entailed, I wondered if that meant they used a stronger material for table. Using a stronger material for the table would definitely change the the frame dynamics and alter the resonance point

[hotshot]

.... SInce I installed the new table the Vibrations seem to disappear....

I have to wonder if you didn't change your resonance point when you added mass. Obviously mass always helps this, but I know on my Hawk BM, there was a resonance vibration that kicked in at a very unfortunate speed, and on the EX and most of my saws, there is some speed where the vibrations increases. The Bushton folks supposedly could tweak something and move that resonance around in the "speed" spectrum.

Before I added Pegas Clamps, Speed 9 was the resonance/harmonics speed on my EX. After Pegas clamps, I think resonance moved outside the EX speed range.

[NC Scroller]

I still use my factory dust collector on my pre Chinese Ex21. No, not for everything that I cut but primarily for compound cutting where we generate a lot of sawdust. I did enhance my dust collector by replacing the membrane wit a piece made on a 3D printer. The enhancements gives a bit of extra space under the table so small particles don't get trapped.

[cwmagee]

The last time I visited with Denny Winter 2020, I had an opportunity to try out the PEGA Saw that Denny has set up in his store. I was extremely impressed with the saw performance. It will be the saw that replaces my EX21 when I need a replacement. When I visite Denny I was considering purchasing it as my EX21 was increasing vibration. At that time Denny did not have a date when PEGAS would be shipping new saws. Since the Larger tables were available and interchangeable with the EX21, I decided to purchase the new table. SInce I installed the new table the Vibrations seem to disappear. I am not certain if the table is a stronger material or if just a difference in weight, because of the larger size.

As Randy mentioned, another benefit is no dust hoes to catch the small scrap pieces wood.

[Bill Wilson]

I've owned both tilting table and tilting head saws. My current saw is an EX-21 (pre-Chinese made version) with the tilting head. I have to say that for beveled cuts, I much prefer the EX over my previous tilting table saws (Craftsman and Dewalt). I think a lot of it is the rack & pinion angle adjustment system. It's very solid and tactile.

I've heard many good things about the Pegas and would likely have it at the top of my list, perhaps along with the King, if I were in the market for a new saw today.

I agree with Randy. I do not like the dust collection system on my EX. I long ago removed the hose fitting and the plastic membrane from underneath the table. I'd like to do something about those blasted holes...one of these days...

That said, it looks like you have 2 very good saws already. Unless you do a lot of beveled inlay work or stacked ring bowls, as Denny mentioned, I don't think you will be making a huge leap in functionality over the saws you currently own. However, I would never dissuade anyone from buying a new tool. I think that's part of the woodworker code and I don't want to risk losing my card. 😁

[hotshot]

....The primary reason for the Tabletop upgrade was the larger work surface.

One added benefit with the tabletop upgrade, was the new tabletop seemed to dampen vibration. . . .

And no annoying dust collection holes, for little pieces to catch on, right?

Since tilt arm style saws are my personal favorite . . . I can criticize it right? I hate the freaking dust collection mechanism on my King, and prefer the table on the older Green EX that didn't have that.

[Rolf]

Thank you everyone. I guess I just need to scroll more and have more patience with my abilities. You all are amazing

I have been scrolling for about 20 years and still learning.

[cwmagee]

I own and use the EX21 the Excalibur anniversary model which was was among the last models manufactured in Taiwan. I have been using it for approximately 8 years. I replaced the blade clamps as soon as the Pegas clamps were available. In mid 2020 I replaced the table top with the larger Pegas Tabletop. The primary reason for the Tabletop upgrade was the larger work surface.

One added benefit with the tabletop upgrade, was the new tabletop seemed to dampen vibration. It is a smoother operating saw. I now operate the at nearly 100% blade speed.

[Jim Lowder]

Thank you everyone. I guess I just need to scroll more and have more patience with my abilities. You all are amazing

[Rolf]

I have both types of saw A tilting table Hawk g426 and an Older Excalibur with a tilting head. Unlike Carole for bevel cuts I prefer the tilting head I do larger projects and it is easier for me.
Regarding compound cuts they are cut at 90 degrees.

If I were in the market for a new saw I would buy a Pegas, Best all around features currently available on a scroll saw.

[handibunny]

If you have a good saw, and can set the table accurately, you should be good to go. Give a holler if you need help. 😁

Randy, I swapped out the clamps on the Jet for the Pegas clamps as soon as they became available. I found the Jet clamps just too fidgety for my taste.

[Jim Lowder]

Thank you all for the info. Sounds like it’s talent or practice issue not my saws. Wife already gave permission to buy a new one. I will wait tho

[hotshot]

....Also I read somewhere that all of the tilt arm scrolls are built in the same factory in Taiwan, so why would one be better than another?....

I'll talk about this specific "slice" of your question, with more detail that you probably want or need.

Most Tilting head saws do come from the same Taiwan factory, except Excalibur. So what happened with Excalibur was . . . General got bought by a Chinese investor, some China/Taiwan drama ensued, EX manufacturing moved to China. That transition resulted in a very problematic saw for many users. I warn everyone off the Chinese Excaliburs. If you find an older Taiwan Excalibur in good shape, those are good.

So amongst the various Taiwan saws, some are more similar than others.

Seyco is probably the most different, and some folks do love that saw, but it does not have the rack and pinion for the arm tilt that I personally prefer, and has a completely different platform it sits on. The arm is very similar to the other Taiwan saws. Unlike most of their competitors, Seyco only sells a few different products, and most of those are scroll saw related, so it is a very "Scroll Saw" focused company. Seyco is very small, but has a long history in the business with a good reputation for support.

Jet has a saw with slightly different dimensions than all the other competitors, and a very unique blade clamp which Carole can tell you all about if you are interested. I would personally change that to a pegas clamp which fits the Jets also. Not sure how Jet support works, but they have a very good name in tools so I assume they have a viable support structure.

King in the US, Carbatec and Axminster overseas are very similar, except Axminster comes with the better Pegas clamps. I'm not sure how serious issues are handled for any of these brands. I have the King 16", but have only used support once, and they were friendly and helpful, but I only had a simple question.

Then you have Pegas which is similar to the King/Carbatec/Axminster brands, but does comes with the Pegas clamps, and I have been told they bolstered some of the internal components (bearings perhaps?). They also have a bigger table (sold separately) that can both fit the 21" Pegas and probably a few other 21" competitors. I'm sure the larger table won't fit Seyco, and probably not Jet. If there is a mechanical issue with Pegas, I'm not sure how technical support/repairs are handled, maybe Denny can answer that.

Everyone has their preferences, but if I were buying a tilt head saw at this very moment, I would probably go with Pegas.


-----Randy

[handibunny]

It doesn’t matter whether the saw table tilts or the saw arm tilts. Either can be used for any project cut at an angle, and there’s a learning curve for each.

I actually prefer the tilting table because the blade remains vertical. I find that at really steep angles, like 40 or 45 degrees, the rapidly moving tilting arm is very distracting and following the blade at that type of angle is a challenge. The only advantage I’ve found for the tilting arm is that a very large workpiece can be tricky to control on a tilting table. Since my blanks are seldom larger than 10” square, it’s not an issue.