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  • SuperMax mystery

    Last week, out of nowhere, the conveyer belt on my 19-38 began to make a rattling type of noise that increased as the speed increased. We couldn’t find anything loose that might be rattling, and it sounded as though the belt might be too tight, but that made no sense since I figured that if anything, it would stretch over time.

    So, I sent them a brief video clip so they could hear the noise, mentioned the current weather situation (hot and humid) and got back a very nice response, suggesting that the warm, humid spell might be a factor, and we should try decreasing the tension on the conveyor. There were a few other things that could be checked, but that was the first that was recommended.

    Well, wouldn’t you know that as soon as we loosened the tension a bit, the noise stopped. I can’t figure why hot, humid weather should cause the belt to tighten, and was hoping that one of you more technically minded people could shed some light on this. I could write back to the techie and ask for an explanation, but I’m trying to limit my questions so as not to become a nuisance.

    And once again, despite the sale to Laguna, the customer support is as impressive as ever!
    Carole

    Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

  • #2
    I don't have a PDF of the SuperMax but if they have bearings in the small belt rollers on each end, they (bearings) could be dry and wearing out. Bearings will make a rattle noise. I would imagine that they would have roller bearings, but small ball bearing could do the same. A company like SuperMax would not cut corners on bearings but still it sounds like grease eventually got used up - which suggests (if it has bearings in the roller or roller drive) that the bearing or rollers were not sealed bearings, and should have been.

    That is just one theory.

    ADDING IN: I grew up living on a farm in dusty environments. Hearing rattling roller bearings were not uncommon. Dust and or lack of grease was the cause. Even had this on bicycle bearings. Not so much in towns or cities. Dust seeps into the grease and dries it out. But the bearings should have been sealed. Some rollers have steel/brass fittings and no rollers or ball bearings. Once worn, too much pressure will cause out of round on one end and not on the other. With the right pressure, a "wobble" noise can be made. My bet is still on roller bearings with the sealed in grease dried out.
    Last edited by leehljp; 07-07-2018, 08:33 AM.
    Hank Lee
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.

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    • #3
      Carole,

      That is interesting!
      cwmagee
      aka Fibber
      Producer of fancy firewood​

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      • #4
        Well of course, the belt is make out of wood, and it certainly could swell in humid weather.......
        "but I’m trying to limit my questions so as not to become a nuisance." Loved that remark Carole.
        Gloria ............... Two memorable things to say in life, "Hello" for the first time, and "Good-bye" for the last.

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        • #5
          Carole I doubt you will wear out your welcome, you have probably influenced more people to buy a Super Max than any of their other customers.
          I agree that is odd. I think that the bearings on the table end rollers are actually oilite bushings not roller or ball bearings. I will have to take a look.
          Rolf
          RBI G4 Hawk, Delta SS350, Nova 1624 DVR XP
          Philosophy "I don't know that I can't, therefore I can"
          Proud Member of the Long Island Woodworkers Club
          And the Long Island Scrollsaw Association

          Comment


          • #6
            Rolf - I agree with you. It looks like the conveyor belt bearings are oilites. Considering the speed that belt travels, it's probably all that's needed.

            IT wouldn't surprise me if the conveyor belt would stretch or shrink during hot humid climate changes. It is a treated cloth sandpaper belt, so susceptible to humidity changes. Years ago, before I had some humidity and climate control in my basement, the belts on my 6X48 belt sander would stretch or warp. Once they did, I had to fight to keep them aligned on the sander bed and usually wound up cutting the and recycling them.

            Carole - is that your original belt? How long have you been using it? It might just be the age of the belt showing. Have you had to re-align it very often?
            Tony

            My Son-in-law said "Darnit, I cut this board twice, now. And it's still too short."

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            • #7
              Yesterday, I looked up a PDF of the 19-38 and it was very unclear; I looked up a different one a few minutes ago and was not totally clear, but much better than yesterday's and the picture of the oilite bearings were visible. It does look like brass or bronze bushings (oilite). The good news on those is that if you do need them, they are plentiful. I agree with Rolf now that I know it does not have roller bearings in it.
              Last edited by leehljp; 07-07-2018, 02:59 PM.
              Hank Lee
              Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks, all, for your thoughts on my "mystery".

                Hank, Thanks for checking into the bearing-bushing issue. Can you clarify just what an oilite bearing is? That's a new term for me.

                Here's the response I got from SuperMax, in case it will be helpful to those of you who own the tool:

                "First thing I would check would be the tautness of your belt. Sometimes when they are too tight they will make that noise. Especially if coupled with very hot and humid weather. The second thing I would check is the fastening bolts on your brackets and infeed/outfeed tables. If a bolt vibrates loose it can make that rattling noise. I would even check inside of your belt. There may be a loose piece of material rattling inside of there as well."

                When I reported back with the good news that loosening the tautness of the belt eliminated the noise, I also asked for the best lubricant to use for the bushings, and the response was 3-in-1 oil, (which I also use for the Hegner). There was no indication that anything else was needed.

                Gloria, I'm glad that you "got it", and I'm not even blonde! The person who responded to my query was not someone known to me, and you never know what sort of assumptions are being made about women. I've found, and suspect that you have, too, that once we establish our "creds" we have more wiggle room to ask further questions. Until then, I feel like I'm on probation. You may recall my sad anecdote of the nasty SOBs at the community woodshop drawing a mustache on my face when my first published article in Woodworker's Journal was posted on the shop bulletin board. (I try hard not to go there.)

                Rolf, I've never felt any hesitancy about asking questions on the forum, or in most woodworking situations, even when I was working from complete ignorance. The folks at SuperMax have always been very helpful and appreciative of my efforts to "spread the word" long before it became a household name. I was concerned that the sale to Laguna would change things, but so far, so good. However, I'm no longer sure whom I'm reaching when I need assistance, which is the primary reason for caution. Thanks for looking into the bearing-bushing issue.

                Tony, it is the original belt, about 5 years old, but with relatively light use. I have never had to re-align it--tracking has always been spot-on, but I wouldn't be surprised if age is making it more vulnerable to atmospheric conditions. I can understand that a belt might stretch with warmth and humidity, but I can't figure out why it might contract under those conditions. The noise that it was making sounded like the belt was too taut, which is why I mentioned the weather conditions in my email. Any idea of the mechanism through which this could occur? Is it possible that the brackets that control the tension at the outfeed end expanded slightly? The weather was warm, but my shop is insulated, and the temperature was always at a workable level.

                Boy, am I dependent on that tool!
                Last edited by handibunny; 07-07-2018, 03:14 PM.
                Carole

                Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

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                • #9
                  While I do not own a Supermax I did stay at a Holiday Inn. It does not sound logical. Yes heating will make objects expand. Different materials will expand and contract at different rates but we are only talking a few degrees here. At the most 20 degrees. I doubt it could be measured except without the most precision high tech equipment. As good as those units are I doubt they are built to those tolerances. If I had to guess I would say the humidity is the real cause. Humidity would not effect the bearings or the roller but the paper can and does absorbed moisture and that could caused it to shrink. BTW I have a Performx sander and I have replaced the original belt with a rubber belt. I highly recommend the investment.
                  Scott
                  Creator of fine designer sawdust.

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                  • #10
                    Quick look up for an oilite bearing here:
                    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=1UJQWO114BYQT

                    There should be a way to look up the size of the bearings , if you need one. Otherwise, if you did decide to take yours apart, you could measure it outside and inside with calipers to determine the size. OR order them from Laguna; shouldn't be that expensive for a set or two
                    Hank Lee
                    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for the link, Hank. But now I'm confused as to the difference between a bearing and a bushing, since the oilite bearings look like bushings to me.

                      Could it be more a matter of function than form, where bearing is the term when it surrounds a moving part and reduces friction, and bushing is the term when it just offers protection from abrasion, as the bushings used when running a wire through a hole?

                      Girls need to know this stuff.
                      Last edited by handibunny; 07-08-2018, 06:40 AM.
                      Carole

                      Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

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                      • #12
                        Technically for me it is more of a bushing than a bearing as it has no moving parts like ball bearings.They are called both depending where you look. They are used in many applications, like small motors, my first Dremel had them. The scintered bronze is porous and retains the oil. I have a lot of hours on my 19-38 without issue. I do suspect that I have my belt too tight based on the original setup instructions. I have not had to adjust the tracking since I first set up the sander.

                        Found this "Both reduce friction around a shaft, so that the 2 parts can move independently of each other. The bushing is, at its simplest, a simple tube in between the 2 parts, whereas a bearing might use a race of balls or rollers (not the only bearings, but the most common)."
                        Last edited by Rolf; 07-08-2018, 08:26 AM.
                        Rolf
                        RBI G4 Hawk, Delta SS350, Nova 1624 DVR XP
                        Philosophy "I don't know that I can't, therefore I can"
                        Proud Member of the Long Island Woodworkers Club
                        And the Long Island Scrollsaw Association

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks, Rolf. That last paragraph is a clear and concise statement of their similarities and differences.

                          Thanks, too, for clarifying how the oilite bearing retains its lubrication, and why a simple oil would be the lubricant of choice.

                          If I’m going to use quality tools, I need to understand the whys and hows of caring for them, and know the correct terminology when asking for help.
                          Carole

                          Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

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                          • #14
                            This thread made me feel guilty and I went down to the workshop and oiled the bushes on my one. It has been running for some 12 or more years with no oiling as I thought that the bearing were "self oiling", whatever that means.

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                            • #15
                              They are "self oiling" to a degree just like sealed bearings. But the oil does get dried out and the grease in bearings gets dry and lumpy. There is also sawdust that sucks up the lubricants.
                              Rolf
                              RBI G4 Hawk, Delta SS350, Nova 1624 DVR XP
                              Philosophy "I don't know that I can't, therefore I can"
                              Proud Member of the Long Island Woodworkers Club
                              And the Long Island Scrollsaw Association

                              Comment

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