Hawk 226 breaking blades?

[snatiep]

Hello Everyone!
My problem is with my Hawk 226. It's breaking blades. I know I'm inserting them correctly, tensioning(sp?) correctly, etc. I sand the ends of the blades before using them to remove the oil and scuff them up a bit so the blades get a good grip. I have taken the blade holder apart and sanded the ends to clean them up as well. The blades are breaking in the middle. It's pretty frustrating.
I have a dewalt I also use and I can use a single blade so much that the teeth wear off!
If any of you Hawk owners can help, I'd sure appreciate some help or advice!

Thanks!
Nate

[Rivari]

Hmmm, if you checked all your adjustments and they are good I would have to say that perhaps you have a bad batch of blades...shot in the dark there.

I've had no similiar problems like you describe. What type/size of blades are you using?

I'm sure Jeff and some of the other Hawk owners will chime in with more info as an easy solution has to exist.

[utbva]

Nate, I feel your pain as President Clinton used to say. I have a Hawk 220 and for the most part everything is ok, but the other night I was cutting out a puzzle and for the first time I was using the FD-SP blades and they would cut for about 10 minutes and then break in the middle. I have also reduced the tension but I don't know if it is too little or too much. I used FD-SR 2/0 and did not break one blade. So I am looking for answers as well.

[Rivari]

Nate and Bill, what type/size wood were you working with? Also, at what speed were you cutting?

Myself I am a real slow poke when it comes to cutting and I keep my saw speed pretty slow.

Perhaps the problem is excessive saw speed with a hardwoods? Another shot in the dark.

[utbva]

I was using 1/4" BB ply and running at close to top speed. After I finished the puzzle and broke 12 blades I got to thinking that maybe in needed to slow the saw down. I haven't had the chance since to try the slower speed. I will try that over the weekend if I can get the shop warm enough to keep my fingers from freezing off.

[workin for wood]

I know that too little tension can also break blades..causes a bowing effect inside the wood that weakens the blade. On the rare occasion that I use a different size blade than I normally do, I crank the tension back, insert a blade and pull back the tension bar. Then I start cranking the tension crank at the blade until I can only push the front of the blade back about 1/8 inch. With smaller blades like puzzle blades, that would be too much tension, those would be able to be pushed back about 1/4 inch. With those blades I crank the tensioner at the back until the blade pops..then I turn back a half turn and try another blade.
Or...maybe your blades suck, or you got a bad dozen? Don't ask me what's the best brand, or I'll be running for the hills !

Oh yeah...like Mr Birthday boy says...speed can sure be a factor. A number 9 blade can buzz like a chainsaw, but an 8/0 jeweler blade needs to chug chug chug like a train starting off on a hill.

[PeteB]

I use puzzle blades pretty much exclusively, and have not been able to run at sustained high speeds without very short blade life.

My Hawk has a lot of vibration at high speeds which may be part of the issue, but the blades actually seem to cut better at moderate speeds, probably from chip removal. I really ought to try mounting the saw on a slab, because I'd like to cut faster if possible.

I tension the blades about the same as I would a 2/0, and "ping" them to test.

Blade life is usually pretty good, and normally it's wear and resultant slow cutting that prompts me to change blades. An exception to this is Finland birch,in which the glue lines turn black and the blades break before they wear out.

Pete

[utbva]

I was tensioning the SP blades to about or maybe a little less than the 2/0 blades, but they would still break after about 10 minutes. I never had a problem with the 2/0 blades, so I may just use them. My Hawk vibrates more at some speeds than others, so I adjust it to a speed where the vibration is minimal.

It's kind of like balancing the tires on your car. Sometimes if they are not properly ballanced, you can go 55mph and the car will shake, but if you get up to 60 or 65mph or more the shaking will stop and you can drive in comfort.

[snatiep]

My speed is the same as Bill, I adjust it "in between" the wobbles on the Hawk. It isn't too fast though. I'm cutting 1/8" baltic birch with a 2/0 reverse tooth blade. I think I may have too little tension on it. I'm adjusting it to the recommended 12:30 position on the sticker. It bows pretty good in the Hawk. When I use them in my Dewalt I tighten them up pretty good and they last a looooong time. So maybe I'll tighten the tension up a littlt more than recommended on the Hawk and try it. Maybe like 11:30 or 12:30.

Thanks,
Nate

[Rivari]

Wobbles and vibrations?

Folks what have you got your saws sitting on?

I'm almost insulted that you are experiencing things like this, you should not have these problems in no way. My G4 purrs right along and vibration is no factor what so ever, do tell what you have your saws mounted on.

[PeteB]

Wobbles and vibrations?

Folks what have you got your saws sitting on?

My saw is on a carpeted wooden floor, not an ideal situation.

RBI says (and I have no reason to doubt them) that I should take the saw outside and put it on the ground to see if I have a real vibration issue. Other suggestions are to put a paving slab under it or to put in a lower shelf and add ballast.

To borrow a Brit expression, I "can't be arsed" as the saw is quite smooth from 700-1100 SPM. The BORG doesn't have quite what I'm looking for in patio blocks, need to check some more places.

Pete

[William Young (SE BC)]

I hate to even mention it but I know of several people with Hawk saws that have used them on concrete floors in their basement and they would literally walk across the floor with the vibration on the higher speeds. One was of a personal friend of mine and I saw it in action so I am not exagerating. He paid shipping charges both ways and sent it to the factory once and it came back the same way. He was upset with that so he turned around and drove all the way from Canada to the factory in USA on his summer holidays from work as a school teacher and they worked on it and told him it was fixed. It was no different when he got it home.
I am not calling down RBI Hawk saws in general because they are not all like that obviously or there wouldn't be so many scrollers that like them. Some swear by them and some swear at them.
I hope a slab of concrete under it will help but if some vibrate like that on a concrete basement floor I can't see that concrete on top of wood is going to help.
He finally sold his real cheap to a person that didn't mind using it for only slow speeds because the factory/manufacturer was unable to stop the excessive vibration on any speed over about a third up from the lowest speed.
Personally I would be furious with a company that could not fix a saw that they built especially for the price they charge for them . Perhaps you should contact them and see if they have now figured out a solution because the ones I am referring to were from a few years back.
Best of luck with getting to the bottom of the vibration problem. It could very well be the cause of the blade breaking problem as well .
W.Y.

[Rolf]

I am with Todd, my G4 is very smooth. I have it in the basement on avynyl matt over concrete. I can even do the nickle on edge trick through the entire speed range.
What vintage are the RBI saws that seem to present the most problems?
I would suspect that they went through refinement stages as most saws do. ( the Dewalt 788 seems to be an exception).
I think one problem with the Hawk is the 4 legged stand. I personally feel that 3 leggs are better.
Our club meets in an old barn with a wood floor, ALL of the saws vibrate there. The entire floor whips.

It is also very rare for me to break a blade and most of my work is with a 2/0

[BobD (Archive)]

My G4 is easily the smoothest saw I've ever used! It's set up on the concrete floor in my basement...and I took the time to level it with the rubber feet...that really does make a difference!

Bob

[snatiep]

I bought mine probably 3-4 years ago. Mine certainly doesn't dance across the floor, but there is a spot on the speed control where it does vibrate, but not so much that I can't work with it. I think my dewalt even has a certain "spot" that causes it to vibrate just a little bit.
I called RBI a few days after I got it and told them of my slight vibration. They asked what the saw is sitting on and I said it is on a concrete slab. They suggested I put pieces of carpet under the legs and try that. Well, it was the same and I never called them back.
What exactly is the saw supposed to be sitting on? Concrete or something softer (carpet, rubber?).
It is such a well made saw and I love cutting with it, but it isn't as smooth as my Dewalts!

Thanks!