European woodwork machinery webshops?

[Ken M]

Hi everybody!

I´m a wannaby hobby scroller from Finland looking for my first scrollsaw.

Now, I´ve already got some very informative hints on what to get, but the problem remains where to get the scrollsaw.

I believe the Delta SS350LS would be a good choice for me, but as it seems only the older version, the 40-570 can be had for 230V here in Finland and probably the whole of Europe, I´m looking for this model. In Finland, however, this scrollsaw without a stand (and you cannot buy a stand for it over here at all) will cost over $400.

So, I would be very happy to hear from other hobby scrollers knowing of any European woodwork machinery webshops with good reputation of doing business that there is. Anyone know of any webshops in Europe?

I´m also interested in the Hegner scrollsaws, but not for the price they go for in Finland (over 1300 euros), sure wouldn´t mind a DeWalt788 either, but the factory told me they don´t make a 230Volt model and there is no service either within Europe for it, so I guess I´d better leave the 788 out of my search.

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Best regards, Ken

[Plain_Ol_Ed]

On the power difference. If you find a saw you really want that needs 120V, talk to a local electrical shop about getting a step down transformer. They should be able to wire it up for you with the correct plugs and all.

[Gill]

Hi Ken

There's a lengthy review of European/US/Canadian Tool Store Sites here on the UK Workshop forum.

Gill

[GrayBeard Phil]

Ken:

Welcome to the forum.

I trust our friend Gill has given you some leads to solve your quest for starting in the hobby.

BTW: I am glad you took my suggestion from the rec.woodworking newsgroup. That place is OK to pick up some hints and news, but sometimes you have to be real, and I do mean REAL, thick skinned about the suggestions that are offered to questions like you asked. You will find we try to be more polite here. So welcome.

Last Summer we had a long thread discussion on an English made Dimond Fretsaw. Our supplier of the great SS blades 'Flying Dutchman' brand added the following to that discussion

...other scroll saws made and sold in the UK. Like the Rexon DTS-16A, or the SS-13A3, The Clarke woodworker, Axminster FS 18, Record Power, Draper, Mini Craft,Kity.

When you google for these brand names, don't forget that many still call a scroll saw a 'powered fretsaw'. As in Rexon DTS-16A fretsaw, or Axminster fretsaw.

Again Welcome to the forum.

Phil

[Gill]

...other scroll saws made and sold in the UK. Like the Rexon DTS-16A, or the SS-13A3, The Clarke woodworker, Axminster FS 18, Record Power, Draper, Mini Craft,Kity.

How can I phrase this?

Some of the Chinese/Taiwanese saws listed above do have a following. I've heard good reports of the Ferm saw from Screwfix and in the past I recall someone speaking highly of their Axminster. I hasten to add that I've used neither myself. However, most of the machines mentioned do seem to be aimed at general woodworkers who might dabble in the occasional bit of scrolling as opposed to scrollers who might dabble in the occasional bit of general woodwork.

To my mind, Ken is right to be looking to Delta for his saw if the likes of Hegner are out of his price range. The De Walt is not available in Europe, to my knowledge.

A brand that Ken might encounter and which I've seen demonstrated is the SIP. I once ended a demonstration of one of these machines at a woodworking show simply by asking the operator to change the blade. 'Nuff said.

Gill

PS Do Kity make a scrollsaw? I'm a big fan of Kity, having one of their bandsaws, a tablesaw and planer/thicknesser, but I've never heard of them making scrollsaws.

[CanadianScroller]

Alternative

Nick Englers book from the Workshop Companion series called "Using the Scroll Saw" has a great project in it that could be used anywhere.
It is a shop built 20 inch scroll saw with a top loading blade.
The upper arm lifts like the Dewalt.
The table tilts both ways, the tension control is up front.
It is inexpensive to build and would be a good choice for people overseas.

[Ken M]

Phil, Gill, Ed, Carl,

Thanks for your kind help

I took a look at many of the U.K. and German shops on the link Gill gave me. Somewhat surprised I found that I couldn´t locate a Delta SS350LS anywhere, but a few places did have the older 40-570 in the 230Volt version. All the Delta 40-570:s, however, were prized just like the one I found here in Finland, that is about twice what they´ll cost in the States. And that´s without postage, so I decided to "give in" and got the one from the hardware store for the equivalent of $410 (this was a special offer, by the way). I´m happy with the deal, knowing now that I cannot get it cheaper. At least I have a shop to turn to in case it brakes down.

Still, the big supermarket type hardware store, allthough specializing in tools, didn´t have a person even knowing what a scrollsaw is. I had to show them which machine I was talking about and where it was in their own tool display...

Today, however, they had phoned the importeur of Delta here in Finland to ask if they had a stand for it. They didn´t, but that´s no news to me. Reading their Finnish interpretation of the scrollsaw manual, they tell you you mustn´t use the machine unless you use the stand or bolt it to a table that is in turn bolted to the floor... Makes one wonder why then they don´t sell that stand, saying it´s important.

Ok, so now I have the box at home, have read the Finnish manual and will take a look at the English one also, for my own safety. The scrollsaw is very wisely packed in a plastic bag and litterally soaked in presevative oil to avoid rust. The Finnish manual talks about using CRC to wipe off the excess oil from the working table and the rest of the machine, and to avoid using anything else for this like acetone, thinner, gasoline or the like, so I just bought a big can of CRC and will do some cleaning up this evening. Guess I shouldn´t use CRC on the plastic parts though, any hints on what to use to degrease these parts without bleaching?

Then I´ll need to start the hunt for that stand. Guess I could order one from Delta U.S.A., they did send me an item number. Maybe one of the U.K. shops have one too. I don´t really care if I can get the stand for a reasonable price shipped to me, I already know it is not a possibility to combine those two words in the same sentence, affordability & possible

Still, I don´t have a suitable place for the scrollsaw in my hobby corner unless I get a real stand for it, so I guess it´ll be a few weeks up to a month until I´ll get a stand from abroad shipped home and can start using the saw. But as the famous saying goes: slowly does it.

Ok, enough written, time to go tinker a bit!

Cheers, Ken

[Gill]

Hi Ken

Thanks for the update. I hope you enjoy your new saw and show us pictures of some of your produce soon. Don't be shy !

I'm currently trying to persuade my other half to build a stand for my saw out of concrete breeze blocks, with a wooden bed on top to hold sand. Then I'm going to put a marble base (you could use paving slabs) on top of the sand and mount the saw onto the marble. The idea is that any vibration from the saw will compact the sand; by tightening bolts that will run into the sandbox from the marble I'll have a vibration free pedestal.

Well, that's the theory . I'm just trying to say that there are alternatives to manufacturers' stands and some of them are a lot better and cheaper.

Gill

[sheltiecarver]

Ken,

Congratulations on the aquisition of your new saw! You must be a whole lot more patient than I - I'd have that baby cutting already, stand or no.

My first introduction to a scroll saw was a Dremel, which was a good tool for the money, but it was a "traveler and a shaker". Using it on a benchtop or a table at first meant holding the saw with one hand while controlling the cut with the other hand. (Not recommended procedure). I helped the situation quite a bit by adding an "anti-vibration pad" (basicly a thick closed cell rubber pad) and bolting the saw on it's pad to a somewhat larger piece of plywood (any sheet goods would probably do). Then, when sawing, the whole shebang could be clamped to a sturdy table with whatever clamps seemed appropriate. The arrangement, while makeshift, really worked quite well.
When I replaced the Dremel with a Delta, I expected to go through the same process, but it was almost rock-steady on a sturdy table with no added precautions needed. Eventually I did bolt it down, but just to keep it from being moved by other activities (my shop is teensy).
The point of all this?? I think you should get that new saw out of it's box and fire it up - and see just what you're dealing with. Could be you can have it functional a lot sooner with just a sturdy table or shop-made stand, and you can start scrolling.
Whatever, be sure to let us know how it goes - we're all pretty enthusiastic about creating more scrolling devotees (or addicts)
Sandy

[millwab]

Saw stand

Ken,
If you want to make your own stand, go to Woodmagazine.com and search their site for "scrollsaw stand". They have a plan that is a free download that looks substantial enough. They give you written instructions as well as an exploded diagram and materials list.

Bruce

[CanadianScroller]

Scroll saw stand

I came upon a site with a scroll saw stand
and a pedal powered scroll saw. All plans are free. My favorite cost

[Gill]

I came upon a site with a scroll saw stand
and a pedal powered scroll saw. All plans are free. My favorite cost

But it would cost more to make one of these than it would to buy one!



Gill

[Ken M]

Gill, Sandy, Bruce and Carl,

Thanks for the ideas and links to DIY stands. Still, I believe I will try to buy one, because I really do not have too much space for something wide and as I´m not the fastest builder in town, I may as well get a stand that´s ready made...if I find one.

Last evening I got the scrollsaw out of its box, but decided to do the cleaning up today.

Wow, there was A LOT of oil to wipe off! I must have been crawling around the saw, standing on the concrete floor in my kitchen, for more than an hour to get into all corners. I wanted all oil off painted surfaces, especially those places near the dust collector box, oil and dust mixes all too well. Must be easier to keep the dust away from a dry surface than an oily one.

So, now the work table is wiped off with a paper towl...make that many paper towls...make that a few rolls of paper towls... The Finnish manual talks about just spraying it with CRC and the English manual doesn´t mention CRC, but tells you to wipe the table with kerosene, then wax it and finally buff it.

So what should I do? Spray it with CRC or degrease it with kerosene, and then wax it?

The CRC would definately keep any rust from forming, but wouldn´t that be oily and contamine the wood to be cut, making surface treatment of it later on difficult or at least make it worse?

So should I preferably do the kerosene and waxing procedure? If so, where do I get kerosene? I thought that was something jet airplanes used! Don´t have one yet, allthough I´m sure I´ll buy one as soon as I´ll start making the big bucks selling my masterpieces ...NOT. So how do I get kerosene before buying a jet airplane?

I hope you are very patient indeed, because I would also like to know what kind of wax you prefer for this job. Would plain old Turtle automobile wax do? What should I use for buffing?

By the way, I did already run the scrollsaw, once I had checked all the bolts and bits. It´s not that noisy actually, that´s a nice surprise! You can feel it vibrate, but not that much either really. The blade seem to move quite a bit horizontally, a couple of millimeters, but probably perpendicular to the table, straight, not like I understand the C-arms do.

So, I have once again bombarded you with my thoughts and questions. Bare with me, I do appreciate your kind help and all the hints I´ve been given.

Cheers, Ken

[Gill]

Hi Ken

Kerosene... paraffin... both are the same and should cut through the gunge without the need for anything else (what's CRC? I've never bothered with it). When you think you've got everything clean that's going to come into contact with your wood, run a scrap of cheap plywood through it just to be sure. Then wax it with whatever's to hand. Most people I know use a little conventional wood finishing wax such as neutral Black Bison, but the brand doesn't matter much. I think I'd avoid car waxes if possible because of the added ingredients that might make your E-Type Jaguar gleam but aren't necessarily designed to make an intarsia teddy bear look more cuddly . Buffing is just a matter of polishing and I use whatever old rags are to hand for this. Old fashioned cotton pyjamas (or even dusters) are good if you can get hold of them, but most soft rags will do. Avoid nylon rags - you wouldn't like the build up of static electricity.

If you're going to be place your saw in hibernation at some point in the future, it's worth coating it with camellia oil. I know that's probably not appropriate advice right now, being as you've just started using your saw, but I thought it might be worth mentioning anyway.

Gill

[Ken M]

Good evening,

Ok, I think I found the stuff, it is called lamp oil over here. I´ll have a look at the hardware stores for some wood wax tomorrow.

CRC 5-56 is something a bit like what you´d call WD-40. It lubricates, protects metal surfaces, removes water, opens rusty bolts...

I have by now located a Brittish toolshop that sells Toolbank´s tool assortment and they have Deltas own stand for the 40-570. They also have a mitre gauge for my disk/belt sander, a part I´ve tried to find for years but never got hold of, even after having placed an order to Delta Machinery, all according to their instructions. Great to find one!

The only problem is, that their, may I say extremely simple, webshop software doesn´t know there are other postcodes than the Brittish ones, although they welcome foreign orders, so I cannot place an order. I´ve written a feedback email to them about this, so now I´ll just have to wait a week or two for a reply I guess.

By the way, it´s interesting how often this is the case when sending enquires to shops around the world:
Shops in Finland will reply within one week or totally ignore you.
Shops in the States will reply within one workday(or two), never ignore you.
Shops in Germany will reply within two weeks or totally ignore you.
Shops in Sweden will totally ignore you, or maybe answere within a month.
Shops in the U.K. usually replies within two weeks.

But so much for equipment. I must say I really like those wooden animal puzzles. I think one could get a nice contour of an animal from a photo by playing a bit with it on the computer. Then it could be printed and the print glued to the wood to be formed. Those puzzles could be made just right for kids. Mind you, I´d love to have that Owl family puzzle on my own shelf, there´s something special about it. Still, I have some model airplane parts to cut out first. I´ll be sure to try out different things on the scrollsaw though.