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  • The ellusive blade guide

    I know many of you still think I am daft about the scrollsaw blade guide thing but I came across a picture I took last year of a 1940 Delta scrollsaw.

    It is hard to see from the angle. there is a roller behind the blade. Also a disk with a slot cut in it stops the blade from moving from side to side.
    This saw has the blade driven from the bottom. The top blade holder is a big spring that is set like the holdown on a sweing machine.
    The saw runs extremely smooth even though it is over 60 years old. All of the motorized parts sit in an oil bath and are constantly lubricated.
    The only drawback to the saw is the blade changes. Setting the tension and clamping the blade takes 3 or 4 seconds. slow by todays standards
    CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
    "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
    Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

  • #2
    From the looks of the picture it looks like the blade guide is not doing that good of a job. Look at the insert plate and the cut edges. Still do not think it is needed and that is why you do not see them on saws today.
    John T.

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    • #3
      If it was that good, why did Delta do away with it?

      Mike M
      Last edited by 3_M; 05-28-2005, 09:00 PM.
      SD Mike

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jttheclockman
        From the looks of the picture it looks like the blade guide is not doing that good of a job. Look at the insert plate and the cut edges. Still do not think it is needed and that is why you do not see them on saws today.
        I only hope I look that good after 60 years of cutting
        CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
        "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
        Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

        Comment


        • #5
          {The next line to be read in imitation of a BBC Monty Python's voice over}
          An NOW, for a completely un-informed opinion from an unqualified expert:

          Well you see there are two hand saws that look a lot a like: a coping saw used by carpenters, and a fretsaw used in scrolling fine detailed fret work hence the name. A fret saw uses a much finer blade.

          The saw above looks to be a motorized coping saw. A small version of a band saw because bandsaws didn't have blades less than 1/16 inch in 1940???? I doubt that the saw above would accommodate anything less than a #5 or a #7 blade. Consider the amount of metal from the bottom of the teeth gullet to the back of the blade. This is what the guide blocks have to work with.

          Foot powered fretsaws were around in the late 1880's and 1890's. Even into the 1930's there were available commercial made manual fretsaws. I don't know that any of them used blade guides.

          But the type of work a motorized coping saw would be used for in an industrial setting doing pre-fabricated case work, yes I could see the usability of a guide blocks, and thrust roller bearing.

          {cut to Monty Python style cartoon: Two large USA style Football defensive linemen with street repair flagmen vest and flags (traffic GUIDE BLOCKERS get it?) and then a book case drops on ....... }

          Comment


          • #6
            The saw itself

            Here is the saw. I think it has a 24 inch throat

            It was tagged as a Delta Milwuakee 24" scrollsaw
            I have a wonderful PDF of the 1943 Delta MIlwuakee catalog that I got from
            OldWoodworking Machines A great resource for tools gone by.
            The saw was variable speed with a crank that changes the diameter of one of the pulleys.
            You can cut wood and have a nickle standing on its edge on the table at the same time....very smooth operation.
            Last edited by CanadianScroller; 05-28-2005, 09:24 PM. Reason: spelling
            CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
            "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
            Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

            Comment


            • #7
              What does 60 years have to do with it? How often was it used in that 60 years? Do you have records. I will show you saws alot older than that and they are showcase saws look better than that. But are not used. So what is your point? If you make this thing I bet you it will never sell. Why because it will be too constricting for todays scrollsawing needs. But by all means go for it. Seems like too much time wasted when scrolling and making sawdust would be more fun.
              John T.

              Comment


              • #8
                Field of dreams

                We all have dreams, some of us live them some of us dream them, all of us have fun with them. Build it and they will come
                Others had similar ideas
                Good job it isnt about the money though because I have to agree they wouldnt sell much. But they will work
                Speaking of Field of Dreams, the guy who wrote it lives in town here and goes to MacDonalds every morning for coffee.
                Last edited by CanadianScroller; 05-31-2005, 09:26 AM. Reason: found another pic :D
                CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
                "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
                Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

                Comment


                • #9
                  Blade guide

                  I've read a lot about the blade guide thing on our forum and will state an opinion even though I know better than to do so!!! SCROLL SAWS DO NOT NEED BLADE GUIDES!! If nothing else it's just another friction producing device generating more heat to the blade. If one keeps the blade tensioned properly and lets the saw dictate the feed rate there should be no problems with lateral movement of the blade. It probably won't work with thick stock anyway because all the lateral pressure, if any, will be exerted to the center of the blade which is not supported and can still flex and cause run-out. Just an opinion and we all know about opinions!!!
                  If it don't fit, don't force it....get a bigger hammer!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Interestingly, I've just recieved the JD Woodward catalogue this morning and amongst the accessories is a device known as a toolbridge which incorporates "2 adjustable hold down feet and a back support for the blade to prevent bending under pressure." Yet Woodward's saws are machined to exceed 0.001" lateral tolerance. Apparently, these supports are particularly useful to people such as watchmakers.

                    Just thought I'd stir the pot a little !

                    Gill
                    There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted.
                    (Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      watchmaking

                      Thanks Gill. I just don't have time for watchmaking. I am too busy exercising my mind with home made accessories. Now if I could add a paint shaker to the upper arm I would really have something!
                      I did see the Woodward saw with the bridge and the holddowns and guide, that is what got me started on this escapade
                      It also seems a lot of jigsaws incorporate blade guides too these days.....just to stir the pot
                      CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
                      "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
                      Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Carl......LOL...you might now really be on to something with the paint shaker angle!!! I've never been very innovative when it comes to improving an already functioning machine. It's generally all I can do to learn to use them the way they are. I am however, a pretty good hand at repairing them when they break!!!
                        If it don't fit, don't force it....get a bigger hammer!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Neal Moore
                          I am however, a pretty good hand at repairing them when they break!!!
                          Heh-heh, you've not seen what my son did to my ocilatiing sander.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oscillating Sander

                            My oscillating sander is a 39 dollar drill press with a string fastened on the handle. I step on the string while the wood is against the drum. It does work but I think it would be better with a blade guide
                            CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
                            "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
                            Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What we really need is for someone to invent brakes for a turtle!!! Those things go whippin' around my back yard and it's just a matter of time until one of the grand kids gets knocked off their bicycle and trampled by a herd of stampeding turtles!!!
                              If it don't fit, don't force it....get a bigger hammer!!

                              Comment

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