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  • #2
    I am going to speak out of turn here.

    I think patterns created and distributed by craft publishers are intended for this purpose. They are not to be used for mass production but small hobby type work.

    If you look at the patterns in the magazines there is a disclaimer that you can photocopy them 10 times.
    That would indicate to me you can make at least ten projects from one pattern, or they are expecting you to make 10 mistakes!!!!

    I would feel quite confident making some of the projects and selling them as a church fund raiser.

    Not that I have made patterns worthy of fund raisers but you are welcome to use any of mine for that purpose.
    CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
    "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
    Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

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    • #3
      Carl, just a thought but wouldn't a church be considered a non-profit organization that would not be effected anyway. Steve
      If This HillBilly Can't Fix it Then it Ain't Broke!!!
      My Gallery
      [email protected]

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      • #4
        The book I have is Animal Puzzles for the Scroll Saw by Judy and Dave Peterson. Under the heading copyright it says “Readers may make three copies of the patterns for personal use”. I’m reading this as the stuff can’t be sold. Am I wrong?

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        • #5
          If you can wait till monday and fire an email to Bob Duncan, he will let you know.
          The Petersens are regular contributors to the magazine, all of their patterns I have seen in the magazine have the 10 copies disclaimer.
          CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
          "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
          Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

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          • #6
            Very gracious of you. Thanks, I'll check back Monday.

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            • #7
              Solution: Study the pattern intently. Then discard it and make your puzzle from memory.....or make your own from scratch.

              Have phun.....Carter

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              • #8
                Personally, I think placing 3 copies for personal use on a BOOK is shameful. Would you by a music CD is you were told you could only listen to is three times?

                I just checked 2 of their books for sale on Amazon.com. Nowhere is there any disclaimer of 'for personal use only'. If there is such a limit, it should be made very apparent to potential buyers. I know I would never buy a pattern book knowing such a limitation existed.

                I buy a lot of books online. Personally, if they don't tell me such a severe restriction exist before I buy, all bets are off. I just purchased several from Fox with a 200 limit per pattern. That's more reasonable.
                Mike

                Craftsman 16" VS, Puros Indios and Sam Adams!
                Scrollin' since Jun/2006

                My Gallery

                http://scrollcrafters.com (reciprocal links welcomed)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MikeDingas
                  Personally, I think placing 3 copies for personal use on a BOOK is shameful. Would you by a music CD is you were told you could only listen to is three times?
                  You think that stinks? I found an outlet for a pattern for a wooden gumball machine. It said on the ad, limit one copy. I emailed them and asked if that was accurate. I asked, "What if I want to make a few to sell at craft shows?" They told me that I would need to purchase a new pattern, at $8 per, for each gumball machine I made. That would sure cut into the profits. That sounds more like paying royalties.
                  Mike

                  Making sawdust with a Dremel 1680.
                  www.picturetrail.com/naturephotos

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                  • #10
                    I agree that I wouldn't even consider such a limitation. It's also fairly weak legally speaking. One of Winfield Collection's losing efforts against a crafter set a precedent for this.
                    In Winfield Collection Limited vs. Gemmy Industries Corporation in the court ruling the court stated that:
                    "The copyright protects the design 'against duplication of [the] design on a paper to be used as an instructional sheet by an unauthorized designer, but will not protect against the embodying of the design' in a similar looking object. Restated, the 'copyright gives [Plaintiff] the exclusive rights to make copies or reprints of the drawing only[;] it gives [Plaintiff] no monopoly of the article illustrated.'"
                    So, if you're using carbon paper to trace the pattern onto a piece of wood, at least based on this ruling you can do what you want with the finished piece. Im not a lawyer and this is just my opinion after way too much reading on copyrights.
                    The note about making 3 copies for personal use (at least to me) refers to the pattern itself. I would take it as you can go to the copy store multiple times and make 3 copies on each trip.
                    Kevin
                    Scrollsaw Patterns Online
                    Making holes in wood with an EX-30, Craftsman 16" VS, Dremel 1680 and 1671

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KzooRichie
                      The book I have is Animal Puzzles for the Scroll Saw by Judy and Dave Peterson. Under the heading copyright it says “Readers may make three copies of the patterns for personal use”. I’m reading this as the stuff can’t be sold. Am I wrong?
                      I have the Dinosaur puzzle book. Upon receipt and reading that "3 copies" blurb, I fired off an e-mail to the publisher asking if I had been mislead as I had purchased the book to make the items "For Sale". Further, I planned to make many more than 3 each. The reply I received was that I was not misled and that what I had planned was fine.

                      Make some puzzles and give them to your church to sell. You are doing nothing wrong and should be praised for helping out a good cause!

                      Let me know if you'd like me to search for the e-mail chain.
                      ‎"Orphans are easier to ignore before you know their names. They're easier to ignore before you see their faces. It's easier to pretend they're not real before you hold them in your arms. But once you do, everything changes."

                      D. Platt

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                      • #12
                        But now I'm confused. If they said it was fine for you to "make many more than 3 each" for sale, then what does their "3 copies" blurb mean, anyway?
                        Kevin

                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -- Dr. Seuss

                        NEW DeWalt 788 and that old, Jimmy- Jerry- and Kevin-rigged Delta 40-560

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kevin12
                          But now I'm confused. If they said it was fine for you to "make many more than 3 each" for sale, then what does their "3 copies" blurb mean, anyway?
                          See Jediscrollers post. He nailed it.......no more than 3 copies at a time....
                          ‎"Orphans are easier to ignore before you know their names. They're easier to ignore before you see their faces. It's easier to pretend they're not real before you hold them in your arms. But once you do, everything changes."

                          D. Platt

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                          • #14
                            Here's the word from the book department.

                            Basically, that statement is written that way to prevent someone from mass-producing one puzzle, flooding the market with it, and basically making life miserable for everyone else who got that book and hopes to market it.

                            We've had instances where people buy the pattern book, send it overseas, and have the pattern cut cheaply, bring them back, and sell them cheaply here in the states.

                            So as long as you are not mass producing the designs, you will be fine!

                            Bob
                            Last edited by BobD; 02-26-2007, 08:30 AM.
                            www.GrobetUSA.com

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                            • #15
                              Thanks Bob,

                              I really appreciate you replying. I have no intention of ever selling puzzles so I'll be fine.

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