Segmentation Help

[Jediscroller]

Hi All,
I'm getting ready to finish up a segmentation project but I can see where shims would come in handy. My question though is how do I go about it? For example, I want to raise an area 1/8", another area 1/4" etc. What's not making sense to me is do I cut a shim to match the pieces I'm going to raise or do I use a small piece of scrap and leave a gap between the raised area and the backer? There's several adjacent pieces that will be raised so I'm not real sure how to go about it. In my limited intarsia experience, I just used thicker and thinner woods for raised and lowered areas, but as this is my first go around with this type of segmentation I'm lost (I know, nothing new). And no, I'm not telling you what it is because if I screw it up, no one will ever see it, LOL!
TIA

[Jediscroller]

Would this be more appropriate in the info exchange??? (help!)

[CanadianScroller]

I would think if the inner pieces will be surrounded by others then you could use smaller shims. If there will be an area exposed I would use one cut close the the original shape.
Another factor would be how many pieces do you have to cut
I know hindsight is always 20/20 but I could see stack cutting coming in very handy here, with 1/4 and 1/8 ply under. that way you can go from flat to 3/8 in 1/8 increments.

[millwab]

Kevin,
If I remember Kathy Wise' presentation correctly, she cuts the shims the same shape as the piece, glues the shim to the piece and the combination to the backer.

Bruce

[Jediscroller]

Thanks Carl and Bruce. This makes sense as the edges of some of the shimmed areas will be on the outsides of the piece.

[workin for wood]

If I need to shim an inside piece, I just use a piece of plywood. It doesn't even have to be a perfect fit because it is surrounded on all sides by other pieces. When an outside piece needs to be shimmed, I don't do it. I use a thicker piece of wood. If my wood is not thick enough, I'll face glue it to itself and let it dry before I cut it to fit. Most people will certainly just use plywood anyhow, but there is a noticable difference. Carl is on the right track, I think he's thinking the way I do. You have to keep in mind that people will see the shims when they walk by the side of the picture. But you have to balance that with how much extra work are you willing to do. Personally, I rather do the extra work because I am a perfectionist. That can be a curse sometimes.

[Jediscroller]

Thanks Jeff. You described what I do for intarsia. I'm just trying to figure out how to do it for a segmented piece. I was thinking I could thin stuff down around the raised stuff but that'd be a ton of work.
I think most scrollers are perfectionists btw.

[ChuckD]

Jeff gave the same answer I would have given if he hadn't. I have glued more than one piece of wood with the same material and grain and then sanded it down ot close the right depth. Affer the cut then I fit it both edge and depth. Of course this is mostly intarsia I am talking about, don't do much segmenation. It should work for that to.

[lucky788scroller]

For segmentation, I do basically the same method that Neal Moore does, except I use a diffrent glue (aileens vs. hot melt glue). No shims are used, i slobber a little glue on the mating pieces, and fit them together.Then, before the glue sets, I put a few of the joining pieces on the glued one, without gluing, just to make sure they are lined up right, because a little off on one piece can turn into a heap of trouble with piece fitting down the line. Its hard to really tell on here, but if you look at my racoon (ratcoon) segmentation I did,there is a height variance of at least 1/2 inch, from highest to lowest piece.The reason my backside of the project appears flat is because I ran it through my PFMX and sanded it so it would sit flat against a wall. The pieces that protrude out the farthest didnt get sanded at all. You may be able to notice the glue joining the pieces on the backview. Thats because after the initial gluing is set, often I will ooze a bead of glue along the seams to assure they stay put. So, i guess to answer your question, you could shim if needed with whatever you choose, but if you used a relatively fine blade, theres really no reason to. Dale
(Im tryin to repost the ratcoon here for reference......)

[Jediscroller]

Dale,
Thanks for your explanation. I think it makes sense.
Do you use a thinner wood doing it this way? My piece would end up at nearly 1 1/2" thick this way (I used 3/4" pine). I still have shaping and such to do, so I still have all my options available (I hope). I should've thought about this stuff before I started cutting it.
Lesson 1 - PLAN AHEAD....ROFL!!!

[lucky788scroller]

NO, That complete racoon is cut from what you see there. Its a piece of maple I had here, 13/16 thick.To create the frame, I tilted my saw a few degrees and cut around the inside, then i went the opposite direction around the outside. I then after gluing up fit the completly stained and glued up project back into the piece of wood it came from to hold it flat. I screwed a couple small boards on the edge of the original piece to act as runners as I passed it through the sander so I didnt scratch the ratcoons lil nose. I used a #1 FD-TC blade I think (or a #3 FD-TC, Im not positive anymore without lookin it up). Just one piece of wood that takes stain nicely is all you need! And, theres really not much drilling involved in segmentation, so you might not like it!!! Dale

Oh, I did no shaping on the pieces. They are stained and raised different levels so you dont need to shape. If you shape it, it becomes an intarsia project almost!!!