Can a lser cut be considered handmade?

[Bill Wilson]

Good points raised, and it does make one think. I'm certain that much of what is called "hand made" today would not have been considered as such 50 years ago and what will be described as "hand made" 50 years from now, wouldn't be considered as such today.

However, I think the question posed in the OP was specifically aimed at someone appearing to advertise his items as something that they really weren't. Most of us might struggle to precisely define exactly what "hand made" is, but certainly believe we know it when we see it.

[Woodworking Plus]

I'll chime in on this subject.
I will agree that if the final product is made using a laser or CNC machine then it should not be considered HANDMADE or HANDCRAFTED and should not be sold as such. If you use a computer to draw patterns then this pattern should not be considered HANDDRAWN. If you use your hands ,eyes and skills to take measurements and you use tools to cut ,shape and fit pieces together to form an end product then this product can be considered Handmade. It takes skill, experience and talent to start with an idea or a vision and raw material and turn it into a piece of art. Pushing buttons and programming a computer does require skill but does not meet the criteria of being Handmade.

[Markru2002]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. I agree that laser is not handmade. My answer from the listing that I posted in my orig. question was this:
the item was cut by a laser but it was sanded, fine tuned and finished by hand.
To me that is not good enough. The "easy" parts are done by hand but the cuting, the part that makes the wood into a treasure, is done by computer.
Mark

[ubgoofy2003]

Well, I have to say that if you program a computer to lazer cut something, it is NOT hand made. On the other hand I question, if you burn a signature, either with a woodburning tool or a lazer, is it hand made? It is hand controlled, like the work piece being cut with the scrollsaw. I personally will always wood burn my signature on my scrollsaw pieces. Lazer's are a big business, not an Art.

[hotshot]

Regardless of whether or not something is labeled handmade, I think my personal dislike of laser work that mimicks scrollsaw work is that it threatens to trivialize the work and sweat equity I've invested to learn to do this. I do this for fun, but still don't like the idea of someone selling stuff similar to mine for 50 cents at hobby lobby that looks close to what I spent 6 hours on.

Of course, my inner conflict relates to the fact that I love lasers and technology and would love to play around with this expensive stuff. In a similar vein, I saw a autocarver at woodcraft that looked really slick, but I'm sure the carvers out there don't like it because of similar sensitivities. I'm kind of torn between the purist sentiments and the love of tech toys that opposses those sentiments.

-------Randy

[JohnB]

Randy,
I'd have to agree with you regarding Tech stuff and toys. If lasers where cheaper, I'd like one to just to sign all my work, but would temptation get the better of me???? Probably would and I'd find myself experimenting and cutting stuff with it. But that stuff wouldn't be hand made.

Just to play Devils advocate for moment. If I designed a piece of furniture, cut, planed and fitted all the pieces by hand, but added decorated panels, burnt by a laser, would that be considered "Handmade". I think it would.

I buy my wheels for the toys I make (Used to turn them myself) but still classify the items as "Handmade".

I think the criteria comes down to , is there any physical skill involved in producing the item, has the overall item been constructed by a single person, using a variety of tools. Is there obvious pride in the end product. There are others, but I cant put them into words. I think, like Bill, I know hand made when I see it.

One thing though, these false advertisements should give us all hope as there is obviously a percentage of the population that looks for/ would rather "Handmade" items.

I to saw a site selling Wooden toys, and they included in their advertising "Each piece sanded by Hand" well I'll be buggered, I gotta get a piece of that craftsmanship LOL

[Max]

This is a great topic for this time of the year with all the holiday craft shows coming up. Sometimes people come to the booth and look at some ornaments and start walking away. When I say these are all handmade on my scroll saw they usually stop and ask questions. Sometimes it makes a sale, most of the time not. I think with a laser it is much easier to mass-produce an item with exact replicas, the grain of the wood being the only difference. No matter how well I cut some ornaments or fretwork, no two will be exact, and there is enough difference that you can see, and I usually will point that out to shoppers.

If I had to make a living doing this, I would probably buy a laser set-up and consign them at gift shops. But, thank God, I don't have to. That would take the fun out of my therapy.

[Phil J]

Well, whether my scrollsaw had a thin piece of flint or a laser beam for a cutting tool, wouldn't the deciding factor actually be whether it was cut free hand or by some computer-controlled gizmo?

[kofte]

I think of comparing laser to scrollsaw is like photography to painting. There is an art to photography in itself, just don't claim it's a painting.t If you're using the laser to express your OWN idea/pattern, I would consider that an art--same thing for those CNC routers. However, if you're just cutting someone else's patterns (which is pretty much most of what I see), that's just mass production--like the photoprints in Wal-Mart.

[Rolf]

Markdavd,

I like your idea about having a really bad laser cut sample on the table for comparison purposes. I will borrow that idea.

[Forester21]

If you use a computer to draw patterns then this pattern should not be considered HANDDRAWN.

Why not? I use my (bamboo) pen and tablet to get the pattern into the computer. But it is my hand that is moving the pen, and my eye that is making the pattern. The computer is storing and printing the pattern once it's done.

T

[JohnB]

Why not? I use my (bamboo) pen and tablet to get the pattern into the computer. But it is my hand that is moving the pen, and my eye that is making the pattern. The computer is storing and printing the pattern once it's done.

T

and if you use a mouse, it definitely should be considered hand drawn
I find it take a lot more time and effort to use mouse than a pencil or brush and first you have catch the little bugger

[Rolf]

JohnB LOL, spit coffee all over my keyboard.

[Rick-H]

Markdavd,

I like your idea about having a really bad laser cut sample on the table for comparison purposes. I will borrow that idea.

And what will you think when the laser guy puts a bad scrollsaw cut ornament on his table to compare his laser cutting to. Using it to persuade people to buy his laser cut stuff.

[Mayo Farmer]

And what will you think when the laser guy puts a bad scrollsaw cut ornament on his table to compare his laser cutting to. Using it to persuade people to buy his laser cut stuff.

Hey, a sale is a sale