Commission

[Marcel in Longueuil]

Hi,

(Bob Delete this if I infringe any rules, as I'm not certain)

I told you a wile ago that my first project might bring me a commission.

Here is the sketch of what I came up with by combining 2 patterns.

It will be 21 x 33, which should make it real interesting to do as one of my first 10 projects.

I'm thinking of using 1/4" & 3/4" BB:
- Sandwiching the 2 and cutting out the outside form of the plaque
- Painting the surface of the 3/4" black flat enamel with a primer sealer under it.
- Scrolling the 1/4" with a spiral blade since I won't be able to turn every which way
- Gluing the 2 pieces together
- Routing an edge to the whole thing
- Maybe staining, not sure but most likely
- Finishing with a spraying of multiple coats of SPAR Urethane
- Price quoted: between $200-$250 CDN (Does it sound right?)

Any suggestions before I start?




Regards,
Marcel

[bearfretworks]

Hello Marcel,

Congrats on the "Commission". Already turning pro, eh?

Pattern looks good. Please take the following suggestions as just that, suggestions.

1) Consider using pine or poplar, even if it means a glue up. This will avoid the "layers" of the plywood showing up when you route the edges.

2) Go with two pieces of wood each 1/2 thick to give depth and shadows to the top layer frets.

3) Experiment with cutting a big piece of cheap plywood with your flat blades as I think they'd work just fine. When I used a Delta 350 (16" throat), I cut a couple pieces 28" X 36" (I did have to use a hand fretsaw for a few cuts "in the middle").

4) Consider deleting the Sheila and Kerri signature initials as they are not cutting the work, you are.

5) Reduce the size of the horse just a tad, or make the piece a tad bigger to center the 655.

6) For something of this size, I would charge ~ 2 hours labor plus materials. At current Alaskan prices for poplar, my estimate for a job of this size would be $100 - $125 U.S.

Good luck and CONGRATS again.

[Old Mooner]

Marcel--I sort of agree with Bear. Lose the SK initials and use a 1/2 to 3/4 board rather than a combination. I use 3/4" Poplar that Lowe's or Home Depot sells for shelving for many of my larger projects and it works well. I can also tell you that a good spiral blade will cut the thicker wood just fine if you don't get in a hurry. Look at the salmon project in my gallery. It was cut with a spiral using 3/4" wood. Good Luck.
Moon

[minowevie]

Hi Marcel. Wow, thats a Big project to start with. You are getting fearless. HA. I still don't have the spirale blades down pat . but that looks like a great project to use them on. the one thing I might add is. you can cut your project in half. buy useing some dove tail cuts. 21x33 is pretty big. but then I am a amiture. you can cut the whole thing in half. first buy placeing the pattern on the full sheet of wood first. then cutting through it with a blade that will not leave a wide kerf. you could zig sag or do a dove tail. in the middale. some where. where it wont show. make it part of the main. or nose or what ever. then you would have a piece that goes together like a puzzel. and you could use a flat blade in the outline. without the wide kerf. of a spirale blade. you would have to use , (I think) a big spirale to cut through all that thickness of wood. does this make sence. just my thought. your friend Evie

[lucky788scroller]

Marcel, I think it is great looking too, and also think real wood would suit it best.Also, I see no reason a flat blade wouldnt work. It might mean reinserting the blade a few more times, but if you follow the lines in the detail of the horses, there really isnt much turning that would hinder cutting it with a flat blade. You want those lines real straight, and I think using spirals for that might prove disappointing to you. Start with a flat on one end of a cut, and cut to the end of the line. then take the blade out, turn the wood 180 degrees, and reinsert the blade, then continue cutting.I always say you should cut with your good side of the wood to the right of the blade, but for this I would make an exception. ok, if I were doing it... 5/8th thick hardwood (red oak or walnut) ... a glue up of at least 3 color/grain matched boards... a #5 or #7 flat blade .. replace the SK branding with a DH . Thats my nickles worth, and I DO like the project. Dale

[Marcel in Longueuil]

Thanks for your input

Now I'm back to my first idea: a glue-up of 1 1/4" thick western cedar (prestige quality, no knots), while my second choice is pine

I've also rethought the placement of the street numbers and decided to place them on a separate plaque that will hang from the big one.

Oh, and the SK was never going to make it to the cutout, it will be replaced by a stylized ML

Now to choose the font, which do you prefer (I'm submitting both samples to the customer, but would still like your opinion)

The original font was Cartwright, but my wife didn't like it so here are two replacements

http://www.scrollsawer.com/gallery/s...php?photo=1118 (Paganini)

http://www.scrollsawer.com/gallery/s...php?photo=1119 (Frankeinstein)

I will also try to do it with a straight blade, for this thickness maybe a #9?

Thanks for your suggestions, they do help

Regards,
Marcel

[SharonW0111]

Marc --- I think Bear and the rest is right on .. I love the sign but I seriously don't think you caan get much more than 100 for it- unless they have have more money than they know what to do with ----- well enough of my jibber but I don't think I would use cedar at all on your main back as it is so soft and spinters out so easy--well for me it is anyway- Be sure and post a picture when you are through and let us google over it..
Shar

[lucky788scroller]

Id say of the fonts, the first one on your original post, then second choice..frankenstein, third choice, the other one. Yes a #9 would do good on 1 1/4 thick, and no reverse teeth. Dale

edit :Sharon, most people that have horses have money, and will buy things horse related without much thought.

[Marcel in Longueuil]

Thanks all,

I don't have a problem working with cedar. The clothe pins box was made of it. What I like about Cedar is that it is imputrescible (doesn't rot) that's why they use it for decks and fences. Ipe would be another choice, but I think it would end up being too hard and oily to work.

As for the price, they already agreed to pay up to $250 after seeing a first draft of just the head .

They have seen the dolphin clock, pictures of the pins box and I gave her a little horse I scrolled for them out of a left over piece of cedar from the pins box (no picture) it's a small horse that I got (the pattern) from a book.

They actually were afraid I'd ask more, as they think they are getting a work of art, not just an address sign. It's all in the way you sell it I guess...

I'll submit the original fonts to the buyer as well.

By the way, they are horse lovers but not rich by any means. Her salary is about a third of mine. This is expensive for them, but I will give them a piece of art that I'm proud to sign, or I'll lower the price (but I don't foresee a need for that)

I'm putting the time in it to give them a result they will be satisfied with. So far I've put more than 5 hours just in tweaking the design. I figure that at $30/hr (BTW, that's a little less than my day job) that's already $150 and I haven't started the mechanical work, the material is not calculated (Including electricity, blades, wood, finish, wear on machine) then add Drilling, Scrolling, Sanding (again and again) and Finishing time. I think the price is fair, and I'm not selling myself short.

The ultimate thing is that the customer be satisfied. I'll let you know.

And I will definitely brag, I mean post a picture when it's done.
Regards,
Marcel

[minowevie]

Well Marcel. thats what i was talking about. they are limited in there income and they are friends, an so on so on. poop on that. you are the one doing all the learning. and you are the one wonting to do this scill. and now every one wonts your product. well I say poop on that. why are you scroll sawing? was this your hobby.? was this somthing you wonted to do for yourself. and your wife. or just yourself? is this turning into a job.? you just can't please everyone. no matter what. you are talented. so what. this is your thing. Is this something you wonted to do for them in the beginning"? or did you start this for your self. you are so smart. an folks will just were you out. Its ok to say no. NO in yelling talk. Stop now. and go on with your craft. Or art. You have My permition. like that is anything. but sometimes we need permetion. Stop. make your scrolling yours. its ok . and if you wont to give it away or sell it. thats ok. just make it your.(YOUR ) distion. this is the most thing I ever wonted to do. and I will not (NOT). let any one including my spouse make it a job. OK did I make myself clear. . this is are past time. and some of us have to make aliving out of it. But if we don't . we can't let anyone take it away from us. ouch did i het a nerve. well I ment too. we loose so many buy the bussness of it all. drats. don't wont to loose you. your friend Evie

[Jediscroller]

Evie,
What's so bad about making money doing something you love to do? I really don't understand what you're trying to say.


Kevin

[BobD]

Marcel,
I deleted the pattern because it is a copywrited design, and there are unscrupulous people out there--I'm sure no regular here would take advantage of it, but you can't tell about the lurkers.

I'm sure most people have seen the image now, so you can all still comment on it.

Bob

[Sawdust King]

Marcel,
I deleted the pattern because it is a copywrited design, and there are unscrupulous people out there--I'm sure no regular here would take advantage of it, but you can't tell about the lurkers.

I'm sure most people have seen the image now, so you can all still comment on it.
Bob

Well, I can't comment. Seeing the pattern might have been tempting but I am sure I wouldn't have succumbed.

I think the point on 'making money' was in regards to people who may try and take advantage of a craftsperson's time and effort. Many people think craft fairs are like car lots and Mexico (the price is always negotiable). People do it as a primary job, supplemental income, or for personal pleasure (maybe even a combination). Charge what you feel is fair. If people pay, fine, if not you may want to reconsider. Would I feel taken advantage of? In the end it is your individual choice.

[minowevie]

Thank you Sawdust, you said it better,

Kevin, I didn't mean to hit a nerve. I sure don't think it is roung at all , to make money at doing what you love to do. as a matter of fact. I think you are lucky to do so. I was just reflecting on some of the things that had happened to me. and went on a roll. I would truely love to make things for people . and get paid for it. but I would rather give something away. and get paid with apreciation, than something never being good enouph , or talked down on my price, becouse Im a friend. I almost lost a friend over this very thing. one of my girl friends, seen one of my quilts , and just had to have one. and when I told her the price. she just had a fit. and when I made the Grand Geneva Clock. she just had to have that too. she said , I could make it really small. wouldn't that bring the price down. HA. That would be sooo easy sure. I told her I really didn't wont to do my hobby to sell , and she didn't talk to me for a year. OH WELL. So fealling quilty , I made her a coupale butterflys. wouldn't you know it . she just had to have 5 or 6 more
she wasn't even willing to buy the fabric for the quilt. or the wood for the clock.
SO . maybe I should not have went off so bad. hope this makes up for my out burst. maybe what i should have said. keep friendship , friendship . and busness busness. your frind Evie

[Marcel in Longueuil]

Evie,

Please note that this commission is for a co-worker of my wife, someone that I barely know, and not a close friend of my wife either.

I understand exactly what you are saying about your "friend". Unfortunately some people want everything for nothing and can't take no for an answer.

It's OK to ask a friend for something, and if they are lucky they may get it for free. But it's also OK for that friend to say there's a price tag on it, we can't afford to give everything away. If it's not in their budget then too bad, but that is not a reason to stop speaking for a year

Sorry to disappoint you, but that is NOT the definition of a friend in my books.