Metal Templates

[BobD]

Now, I have to say I'm intrigued...at least philosophically...

We all know that blades wander away from the line, and Mike is right with his car analogy...But among those who are interested (and don't think philosophical theorizing is a waste of time that could be spent scrolling) I'm sure we could figure out a way to make it work! I'm not sure I'd ever use it--at least I can't think of a way I'd use it--but if you look at it as an intellectual challenge...

I'm game!

I've got a few brainstorms, but I need a little more information Gill:

1. Are the templates for inside or outside cuts?
2. If the cuts are inside, how large or small are the openings?
3. Would it involve any veining cuts?


Bob

[Troy]

I'm definetly intrigued this is a great debate..

My concerns would be if the technique was possible is.

1. Life of the template, as the blade will surely either wear and rub it, or even cut into it sometimes.

From my own thoughts a best use for a metal template would be a fast means of simply tracing out the pattern onto the wood. The only difficulty with that is allowing for line weights. i.e. on a veining area the groove in the metal template needs to be wider than the kerf and also wide enough to allow for the tip of a pencil.

This may not seem so bad, but on very detailed pieces those allowances can add up, and cause template construction problems to overcome.

[CanadianScroller]

same thought another angle

Back to the tube
I realize that the blade will wear, especially if the metal of the tube is harder.
The teeth are on the front of the balde,
The cutting action is on the front of the blade
The wood would apply pressure to the blade and therefore the back of the blade, without the teeth would be rubbing on the tube.
I understand there are tolerances which need to be taken into account.
It intrigues me that we spend so much time talking about the blade wearing out. BLADES WEAR OUT! thats a fact. But they cost anywhere from 10 cents to 25 cents each. Even I am not that cheap!

[BobD]

And here I've been trying to develop a way to sharpen scroll saw blades LOL. I figure if I start with a #9, I can sharpen it to at least a #5, then a #2, then a 2/0 <grin>.


By the way, does anyone throw their spent blades in the recycling bin?

Bob

[jttheclockman]

Gill

That's is not fair to throw something out and then don't back it up. If you read my first posting I asked why, why would you want to do this. The way you worded it would only be more of a hinderance than good if it could work. You mentioned blind people. I have no knowledge of this so I left it open as a possible thing. Then others, and I agree with them, gave you reasons and obvious reasons they are, why it wouldn't work. But here again we left open the fact you may not be telling us the whole story. So if you either have a theory or some facts of a device that might work please share. We are not putting down the question we are just discussing it. So far there is no evidence to support your theroy so please help turn this around and we all can learn. Despite teaching old dogs new tricks I think we all agree we are open for ideas, in spite of what you think is happening here.

[Gill]

It would certainly be sensible to make any metal template out of a substance that is harder than the blade. Which metals would be appropriate?

Gill

[Gill]

JT

It looks as if my post crossed with yours .

I'm reluctant to elaborate on my idea at this stage because of the tone of the posts that followed the original question. It may be that my idea will prove to be impractical and I'm not keen to undergo that sort of scorn again. However, my train of thought should become clearer to all as the conversation progresses, assuming progress is made.

Since initiating this thread, I've already discussed it privately with someone who is more openminded than many people here seem to be and the reaction was favorable.

Gill

[3_M]

Gill,

I did not try to scorn you in any of my post. If it came accross like that, I'm glad to apologize. I was just trying to explain why a template or fence will not work on a scroll saw.
I'm always openminded to learn how to use a scroll saw.

Mike M

[BobD]

I also apologize if my "thinking outside the Box" comment was offensive to anyone. I just felt that the comments before that were stifiling the discussion...instead of taking a tone of "well, in the past this hasn't worked because.." it felt to me like people were saying "THere is no way that this will ever work--the experts don't do it, so why even bother..."


I like to think that we are all open minded...but I know my opinions sometimes get in the way of clear communications!

Bob

[Jediscroller]

I could see where a template would come in handy. I use them quite a bit for furniture, primarily with the router. As far as practical purposes on a scroll saw, one that comes to mind is for inside cuts that need to be as close to identical as possible on pieces that are too thick to stack cut.
Everyone is thinking in router terms (i.e. guiding the blade over a bushing of some type. I'm thinking just the opposite, guiding the workpiece along a template. This is similar in principle to using a template on a bandsaw. I don't know how or if it would work for very intricate cuts, but I could see it working for largish type cuts.
With this type of application, you could use simple hardboard for the template.
Back to the blade side, in my opinion, brass would definately not be the material to use, it is far too soft. T6 aluminum (hardened) would be about the minimum I would think that you would get more than one use out of. Of course, the problem them becomes how would you cut the guide in the first place?
I'm curious to see how this progresses myself.

Kevin

[BobD]

I suppose you could get the templates professionally cut with a laser...or shape them using diamond carving tools or diamond blades...

Just throwing ideas out...

Bob

[jttheclockman]

Well I guess it is my turn to opologize now too. If I upset anyone with my post please accept my oppologies. I am officially out of this conversation. Good luck with the idea.

[sheltiecarver]

Gill,
I keep thinking about your idea - off and on throughout the day - so please, even pretty please, help those of us who are still with you (that is most of us, if I read it right) and give us a few more particulars.
Like, is this for visually or manually challenged folks, or is it for all?
Are you thinking about cutting pretty simple stuff, or the complex sorts of things?
Will there be interior cuts?
How thick a material are you thinking about cutting?
Was your idea that the template rub the blade? Or maybe that the material somehow rub the template, but the template misses the blade by some (possibly minute) bit?
Even if the idea eventually comes to nothing, the thinking is fun, so I hope you can help us in that. When you guide us a bit, perhaps we'll have other questions. Please don't be discouraged by a few negative sounding thoughts - those can lead to solutions, too.
I'm looking foreward to your furthur specs on this!
Sandy

[CanadianScroller]

more ramblings

Hi Gill, remember back to the book review you did on Zachary Taylors Scroll Saw Bench Guide?
He had a fence similar to one on a bandsaw and did repetative curved cuts.
Something like that would work for outside cuts.

Now if we could combine a bunch of ideas....

You could use a carriage to mount your template on one side and mount your stock next to it. You could set up a pin like a pin router . The carriage could slide around and the stock would in theory endup looking something like the template.

I once made a circle jig for my scroll saw. When I fed the stock from one side of the blade the circle jig didnt work. I ended up with a spiral. I know now this is from the blade cutting more aggressively from one side.
Once I switched the stock to the other side of the blade the circles were perfect.
I am not sure how a spiral blade would affect this cut since the burr on the blade would be on the vector of the helix of each tooth that passed through the stock. It may end up balancing itself out.

[heavykevy]

using templates

This is not quite the same but I use templates that attached to a bandsaw to make different styles of windows. It takes a steady hand and keen eye, As many of the windows made this way are no longer mass produced.Alot can be said for assembly line work and get 150 windows made in 10 hours to 1 in the same amount of time.