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    Pyrographer
    Junior Member

  • Pyrographer
    replied
    I'm not a scroller, but hubby is and he has frequently used patterns and sold finished pieces at craft shows.

    I do pyrography and I have produced many patterns from my original burnings. When I started selling them I was advised to incorporate a copyright statement on my patterns and with some guidance I did that I think is pretty clear in my statement that they are not for commercial use (with a clear definition) but CAN be used by hobbyists to create a finished piece and sell the finished piece. YOu can find the statement here:

    http://www.nedraspyrography.com/Pyrography_Patterns.htm

    I do caution people to read the copyright statement on all patterns they plan on using, each one has it's own statement. Some are clear and some are not. Not everyone defines commercial use in the same manner and some do/do not allow resale of the finished product. Often the word "commercial use" when it comes to patterns means you can't reproduce it and use it for class projects or resell the patterns, etc.

    Nedra

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  • lliv018
    replied
    I really do appreciate the responses to my questions as I have worried over this point for the last few months. I am just starting with scrolling and want to sell enough to cover my costs and maybe a little extra for new equipment. I have created one of a kind jewelry boxes as well as turned bowls and boxes in the past so I have not had a problem with these copyright type notices. Thanks again!!!:

    Leave a comment:

  • lucky788scroller
    Senior Member

  • lucky788scroller
    replied
    Originally posted by Minnesota scroller
    I checked out this designer's website and I believe this is a different type of situation. This designer is posting his patterns for free. I believe a designer that sells his patterns is going to expect the buyer to use them on products for resale. Most scrollers aren't going to pay money for a pattern just to use one time for his own personal use. That's my 3c worth anyway.
    I guess I dont count as 'most' , but I buy many patterns expecting to use them once, for my own enjoyment. I do save the pattern however, just in case someone sees what ive cut and really wants one, then i'll cut them one, but most of the things I cut I do once, wether it is cut in a stack, or individually. One good example is the Scheherazade Tower clock designed by Dirk Boelman, and sold at Scroller. Its not a cheap plan, but a clock I really liked. I cut it with the understanding that I would only cut it once. Many have seen it and really like it,but I have no desire to cut it again for anyone, as it took me a long time to make. I will however, someday cut it again for myself, but I will cut it at 200% , making it a floor standing clock, towering over 7 feet high, just because I think it will look awesome.
    I think most designers would WANT their customers to make items from their patterns and sell them,like mentioned, as long as its not mass produced. Dale
    this is a stock photo of the clock i mentioned. my cut one is in my gallery.
    Attached Files

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  • Forester21
    Senior Member

  • Forester21
    replied
    Chuck - Thank you sir!!!

    Minnesota scroller - I buy a lot of painting patterns and books that I use designs from to sell. You would be surprised at some of the copywrite statements some designers put on their patterns - including that they are only for personal use and not selling finished items. But I would bet that they don't sell as many books as other authors when the painters find out about their statement! That's why it's important to read each copywrite statement.

    Theresa

    Leave a comment:

  • Minnesota scroller
    *********

  • Minnesota scroller
    replied
    I checked out this designer's website and I believe this is a different type of situation. This designer is posting his patterns for free. I believe a designer that sells his patterns is going to expect the buyer to use them on products for resale. Most scrollers aren't going to pay money for a pattern just to use one time for his own personal use. That's my 3c worth anyway.

    Leave a comment:

  • popsshop
    Scroller

  • popsshop
    replied
    I just found another example.

    http://www.woodenclocks.co.uk/downloads.htm

    Here, for everyone to see and take heed, is the designer's statement. Pretty well answers the question concerning his designs.

    fred

    Leave a comment:

  • BobD
    Grobet USA's National Sales Manager--Woodworking

  • BobD
    replied
    Theresa nailed our take on the issue. The statement on the pages is so you can make the copies you need at a commerical copy place. You are more than welcome to cut the patterns and sell them at a craft show, or anywhere else you sell patterns. If you find a big seller, and want to make say 300 for your next show, it would be a courtesy to write to the designer and let them know what you are doing. You can't take the design over to China, mass produce it on a laser cutter, and sell it for pennies...that's just wrong.

    Bob Duncan
    Technical Editor

    Leave a comment:

  • ChuckD
    Senior give me a Discount

  • ChuckD
    replied
    Hi Theresa I visited your site and you do good work. Way to go, nice set up also

    Leave a comment:

  • Forester21
    Senior Member

  • Forester21
    replied
    This is my thinking after reading lots about copywrites ~ now - I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV......

    The statement on allowing printing places to make 3 (or up to 10 as I often see) is to allow you to get copies made for your own use. Some copy places will not even let you make a copy of a copywrite page without this statement. This is so that someone does not come in and make hundreds of copies of the design and sell them themselves (yes, it has been done).

    As to selling the crafted item made with the pattern - this is usually allowed as long as you do not "mass produce" the item. This means (to me) that you can scroll the item and sell it "for pocket money" but you cannot take it to a factory, use manufacturing items such as lasers, and produce thousands of the items. BUT - read each pattern's copywrite statement and ask the original artist what they mean if you don't understand.
    Theresa

    Leave a comment:

  • workin for wood
    Masterscroller.com

  • workin for wood
    replied
    Sounds like what she is saying is that the book says your only allowed to make 3 copies for personal use, so therefore you can't make hundreds of them to sell.
    but that's only because the book is specifically stating that, otherwise you can make a hundred and sell them. This is what I'm surmising from what she says the book says and what jedi is saying about the copyright law. Or am I wrong on that? Thank god I just make my own patterns.

    Leave a comment:

  • Jediscroller
    American Craftsman

  • Jediscroller
    replied
    I asked the US Copyright office this very question. Their response was that unless it specifically states that finished products are for personal use only then it is legal to sell finished products. A recent court decision (another one of Winfield's failed attempts to sue people using their patterns) shed a little more light on the subject as well. In the decision, they stated that the copyright pertains only to the 2 dimensional rendering of a pattern, not to the 3d rendering (i.e. the finished cutting).

    Leave a comment:

  • popsshop
    Scroller

  • popsshop
    replied
    Publishers of the patterns give you the right to COPY the patterns.
    What WE do NOT have the right to do is sell those patterns to others.
    Yes, these patterns are for our personal use.
    What we make with these patterns are OUR projects and can do with what we like (keep, give away or sell). Our projects are like no others even though we use the same pattern.

    If I am mistaken in this, please advise. It would be great to have Magazine's staff input in this question.

    Leave a comment:


  • lliv018
    started a topic Craft Shows

    Craft Shows

    I see a lot of scroll saw items at craft shows and want to know where people get these patterns from? Most books say you can make 3 copies for personal use or something along these lines. What is the rules concerning using a pattern you purchased? Do you pay a royalty for the use of the patterns each time you sell one? I guess this is the age of question.

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