Veining help needed.

[Capt Weasel]

Working on a cross pattern for an x-mas present that doesn't seem to be working out. I'm gonna try to add the pic below. I thought I needed to drill a hole on the vein with a #71 bit for a 2/0 FD-PSR blade. Cut the vein the go back through it with a spiral. Well I've done that with a spiral that fits the #71 / 2/0 hole. I recut through it and the vein looks awful big. Big enough to lead me to believe that the spiral cuts are gonna run together or I'm not gonna have enough run in some spots. The wide veins might look outta place, especially on the heads. Well, looking at the pic I think I see where they drilled a hole at the end of a line then cut with a standard blade and thats it. Am I correct? If so is this a common practice?Am I down to as small as I can go with the bit / blade / spiral combo? I think I made the mistake of drilling all my line holes and then cutting them with my 2/0 before realizing what was gonna happen. I'm cutting it out of 1/8" finnish BB and don't think I have to order and redo. What are my options if any? This veining thing is a new technique for me.

[CanadianScroller]

Veining.
You may try modifying the pattern slightly, if you don't like to see the drill holes.
Some people dont mind them I am like you and would prefer not to see them
If you look at the pattern where the robes are draped. you will see a line just above them,
Could you modify the pattern to have the draping lines connect to that curved line
If you drill one hole then you could slide down the curved line and come off at a tangent to make the draped lines.


Sounded easier in my head.

[CanadianScroller]

Here is an angel design I have been working on.
I got the image from a font and redrew it with my mouse.
The details have been simplified,
The problem I am facing is how do I place the mouth of the angel in the image.
I would cut away everything that is white. The mouth will fall out.

[bearfretworks]

Capt Weasel - I see your dilemma!

Here are a few thoughts from a rookie, so take them in that light!

1) An option if you don't want the holes, somewhat time consuming, is to taper every drill hole, basically creat a "V" with the fine line continuing from the V point.
2) You could use your spiral for this as well, a fat line tapering into a long thin line.
3) Another option is to take a much bigger blade, grind the top width down so it barely fits thru your holes, and recut. You'll still have the holes but they will be less noticable.

CanadianScroller - can you glue the "lips" to your backer board? May be easier to handle if you cut them the size of Mick Jagger's!

[jttheclockman]

Here is a picture of my version of that cross.


One thing about veining because I do not like to use spiral blades at all, I just use the smallest drill bit that the blade will fit in. Then cut the line. I then back up and just skim the cut again just making it a slight bi larger. I think people get too finiky when it comes to frets like that. If you are still not happy with the hole showing you can back up and make it more like a tear drop cut. As far as fixing what you have. Use your imagination because no one is going to be the wiser. They do not know what the pattern looked like. Good luck and have fun. I tried to isolate the picture but do not know if it does any good

[Neal Moore]

Angels

Carl.....you might try this.....

[Mick Walker]

Carl, what will you use as a backer? Can you just glue the mouth onto the backer? Mick.

[CanadianScroller]

Thanks Neal, I will try that.
I hadn't thought of using a backer Mick, Funny how we get stuck in one frame of mind and can't see beyond it.
Guess that's why the forum is so valuable.

Thanks to both of you.

[Capt Weasel]

I like your idea JT. But, like a dumd*#@ I did some test cuts on the angel on the left with a spiral to see how it would go. I cut 3 lines with a spiral then noticed how large they were and that it was to big for the heads and top. I then proceeded to drill and cut all the veins.
So what I was thinking was to go ahead with the spirals on the bottom of the robes on both angels up to the waist area. Above that, your idea, I might "rake" a spot big enough for a #5, or what'll cover the drill holes, to barely fit through then run back through the line and cover both the drill hole and the "raked" spot. This wasy I figure I can sand down any imperfections in the line. I only wonder if a #5 will be big enough to cover the drill hole and not be to big for the head lines. I'm using FD-PSR blades so they are a little thinner I think.
I think doing the 2 different size veins will give me leeway and I won't have to scrap it all together and start over. I'm just gonna have to massage it a bit but hopefully it will work out. I've only got 2 weeks to get it cut, stained and wrapped for x-mas so I gotta get busy.

[jttheclockman]

Capt.

I use a #2 on the head and a #5 on the robe and hands. I am sure you will be able to work it out and will look good.

[Capt Weasel]

I finished the veins today and it was tedious but I think it'll work. I squeezed a FD-PSR-#3 through the drill hole spot. I cut in one direction then stopped, pulled blade out, turned piece around, reinserted and cut the other way. This way I didn't have a turn around spot that widened. I kept it as tight as possible. The veins came out pretty good. On a few I had to take a thin strip of 120 and had to work a mark down a tad but for the most part the drill holes are gone. On the bottom of the 2 angels I evenly spiral cut the bottom of their robes so they both have large cuts on them.
I did learn a great deal on this veining piece. Think ahead and use a practice piece first. Make sure you know how to do before you do it. My piece would look alot better if I hadn't cut a few veins with a spiral before realizing that it made them to big. But I guess I do have a one of a kind piece now. Another lesson was to drill your hole at the very end of a vein and not in the middle. By doing this it would have saved me alot of time by not cutting the vein, pulling out and turning blade around to do the other end. I could have made 1 pass and not 2. Oh how we live and learn and I learn more on each piece.

[jttheclockman]

I knew you could do it. You are correct in that you want to drill the holes at either the top of the vein or the bottom. I like to keep them all the same. Also if you vave a section where it branches off into a few different lines then drill the hole at the intersection and it will help hide it.

[minowevie]

Carl i think you idea looks great. Evie

[Capt Weasel]

Why didn't I think of this? I was looking at Jeff Zaffinos web site ( amazing stuff ) and found a tip that just hit me. When it comes to covering your drill hole he suggests adding blades to cut with. Just rub ya' a spot enough to get 2-3 blades through and then run the vein with that. Add until the drill hole is gone. That totally makes sense to me but then again I haven't tried it yet. Has anybody and whatcha think?

[Blade Man]

I have a pattern that I use often, and it requires veining. To insure that the drill holes do not show I will use a bit just big enough to get a 2/0 blade through it. start the cut with the 2/0, but only cut about 1/8" at the most. This way I get a small slot I can thread a #5 blade into, and finish the cut.

This is time consuming, but I like the results.

NOTE: Works for me, your mileage may vary.