marquetry for a noob

[noobie]

hello all,
i'm very interested in marquetry and am considering purchasing a beginner saw (probably a delta 16" variable speed) although i am not new to woodworking - i have my own woodworking shop, i am intrested in applying marquetry into my furniture designs. my question is how difficult would it be to do marquetry with a scroll saw? the designs are not that intricate - ranging from lettering (2" high) to flowers and curvy lines. thanks for reading!

[Plain_Ol_Ed]

Like anything else done for the first time, it will require a bit of practice, but only a bit. Should be fairly simple. Haven't done any myself, but have done a bit of intarsia (similar, kind of), and it's not hard, just takes patience mostly. Might I make a small suggestion? Get ahold of Mike (3M) and get some blades from him. The Flying Dutchmen blades are the best (so is Mike btw). He will help you decide which blade to use for the type and thickness of material you are using.

Ed

[GrayBeard Phil]

A long winded post.

Noobie:

1st, Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your visits.

Try to search this site for inlay, and marquetry. We had a real good discussion last winter or maybe early spring. Our friend Gill posted some of her background with marquetry. We also had a Luthier show us some of his really great string instruments that had inlay. I am going to try to summarize for you, hopefully I will be accurate.

Since you have been around wood working in general, you may have already found out that intarsia is just an Italian word for marquetry. However, the term has taken on a different usage as practiced at this site. Intarsia to most scroll sawyers means starting out with normally thick wood and then the individual pieces are then sculpted, or shaped, to give the over-all 3-D look. The intarsia project is not surrounded by a field of base wood but stands proud by itself.

The point is this: the thickness of the wood is critical. The Thinner the wood stock, the finer the kerf needs to be. The thicker the wood, the more of the main project's wood top must be removed for the inlay piece. For example, using thin veneers Gill used a surgeon's knife because of the kerf.

The other problem you will have to overcome is your saw's table blade insert. This is the same as thin wood on a table saw and using a narrow opening for the blade. The discussion of using a plywood piece to cover the entire table top or fighting to just replace the standard insert is another thread on the forum.

The in-expensive scroll saws you are looking at have more vibration plus the problem of making very accurate cuts. For your intended use with Inlay and Marquetry work, you should look into at least a DeWalt 788, a mid-range saw.

One last item: Scroll saw is a skill; easy to learn, but it takes practice. And then some more practice. Your background with wood working you already know there are times you can substitute accurate woodworking skills with jigs, fixtures, and more expensive power tool add-ons. Here, once you get your pattern on the wood, you cut it. No jigs, no fixtures, no $300.00 fancy fence systems; just you and your easy to learn skill. Now add to that learning curve the skill needed to cut at that marquetry 4 degree angle....

So now I have a question for you. If you have the skill to bookmatch re-sawn wood into a wide plank, could you not take scroll saw segmentation to the next level and make the marquetry piece the full thickness of the wood project? How much easier would it be to route the full thickness of the main project compared to trying to remove only 1/32 of an inch thick out of the top the project?

Hope this helps.

Phil

[Gill]

I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation - I suspect most people here already know my opinions about scrolling and marquetry ! Someone's bound to light my blue touchpaper and retire...

A couple of threads you might want to look at are Marquetry and Intarsia and Marquetry are they same?.

Gill

[jttheclockman]

Phil

I have to ask how fast can you type??? If I had to type all you wrote I would be there for days. You amaze me. Maybe you have one of those fancy gadgets that you just dictate and the computer types it for you. DO YOU??? DO YOU?? You holding out on us.

[GrayBeard Phil]

This reply is Way O.T.

Sorry John it is mostly just my typing.

I can usually type away at about 20 to 25 wpm. But that count includes my spelling and grammar errors. I can just about keep up with my thoughts and thinking. But that is a bad thing. My thinking will sometimes 'frog' from one idea to another un-related idea. Give it maybe a 2:1 ratio, words typed to words posted.

After I do my 1st content edit I copy over to full version of Microsoft Office Pro. where I run my post through a spelling and grammar edit. Then I try to edit for content and thought stream. Then it is back to MS Word for another spell check and then another edit for content. Several times when I reach this point, the thread has changed by other posts and mine is not useful, so I have scrapped the post completely and don't post to that thread.

By the way, as I have stated several time before, I am long winded in person as I am at the keyboard.

The only hope for Western Civilization is someone out there checking my facts, and pointing the errors of my pontifications.

Phil

PS. BTW, just in case you wanted to know, I did once submit an article idea to Shannon and Bob at SSW. But they turned it down. Do you remember a few weeks ago when Mike M. had a triangle puzzle? Well, the solution I posted was WAY, WAY, easier math than my article on the Golden Rectangle, the Golden Mean, and all that good math and geometry.

See, Bob D. and Shannon F. are good to you people.

[noobie]

thanks everyone for replying, i'm very grateful. if the delta i mentioned was not recommended, is there one within that price range anyone suggests? there is a ryobi 16" vs at a similar price. i really can't afford to plunk down $250+ for a machine i might not use efficiently.
following some of the posted links, i've seen marquetry done with just a sharp knife. suggestions? i've tried this at the shop and making smooth curves is next to impossible.
phil, as for your question, i plan to laminate the veneers to 5/8" - 1" thick MDF. and as everyone knows, MDF at that thickness is hell on any cutting machine (and blade).
finally, is an angled cut absolutely necessary? i fear that added step will tenfold the difficulty due to the sake of consistency. after all, i will be contacting cementing and lacquering the veneers afterwards. any advice.

thanks again everyone!

[SharonW0111]

Have you tryied looking at Craftsman?

HI and welcome to the forum -- Have you considered a Sears Craftsman scroll saw- they have a good one for scrolling and it does everything the big boys does - I have the variable speed one that is great - I have no trouble with vibration as long as you have it on a sturdy steady table - They have some news ones out now that have tilting heads and a real nice one that has a quick lever blade realease - I bought a replacement warranty for mine so it will be replaced for the next 3 years free if I have any problems - Best thing of it is that it is all under $ 200 even with extra warranty - I paid like $149 for mine. So go check them out or look at them online and see what you think . but once you try scrolling I think you'll be as hooked as the rest of us..
Sharon

[CanadianScroller]

Honestly noobie, I have used both those saws. and I would recommend the Delta, even though right now I am using an 18 " Ryobi.
For the money you will find less vibration with the 16" VS Delta.The blade clamps on the Delta are also superior.
I do like the 18" Ryobi for the deeper throat and the table with built in hand rests. The 18" model also has a built in work light and a directional blower.
The blower on the Delta is weak and eventually breaks down. It isnt hard to replace but it is a pain.
Lots of other stuff has been said about all the saws on the forum. Just do a search for Ryobi and for Delta.

Good luck with the marquetry!

[Gill]

[F]ollowing some of the posted links, i've seen marquetry done with just a sharp knife. suggestions? i've tried this at the shop and making smooth curves is next to impossible.

Wrong!

The attached picture was cut with a knife - it's nothing special, and there are some accurate curves. The secret is to draw the knife around the inside of the window and use just the point of the knife to score very lightly on the backing veneer where you are going to cut. If necessary, make two or three passes. Then remove the backing veneer and follow the scored outline with the tip of the blade again. Don't apply pressure, just enhance the scoring. Then you can start to apply pressure and cut more deeply, making several passes if necessary.

It sounds convoluted and time consuming but in practise I've found it to be much quicker and more accurate than using a scrollsaw. The key is to remember that you should always use the tip of the knife to cut.

Gill

[Gill]

Drat - the attachment didn't attach . Ah well... If you want to see that picture and others that I've made using a knife, have a look here, here and here.

Gill

[Gill]

There is some more interesting marquetry information here and here. This goes a long way towards explaining why the knife method is so popular in the UK and the saw method is so popular in the USA!

Gill

[noobie]

thanks, gill
i'll give it a try with a knife today. actually, i'm quite excited by the possibility that marquetry could be done with a knife as the work i have in mind is much larger than the beds of the scroll saw (it's actually 12"x48"). that way, i don't have to bookmatch the seams afterwards. i'm up in canada and i assume our veneers are the same thickness, which is too bad cause i could probably do much better with uk veneers. i'll let everyone know how it goes.

[SharonW0111]

EEEEEWWWW WEEEEE neat saws -

Hey gill those are some neat saws-- look like they would even be fun to work with .I didn't know there were so many types of saws
Sharon

[noobie]

hey all,
just an update of the progress i've made (or lack of). i initially printed a design on paper and taped to the back of the veneer and started lightly scoring with my knife but it would just catch on the paper and tear instead. so, i printed the design straight onto the veneer instead (not sure if this will damage my printer) but it looks great so far. just a matter of cutting now. more (chaos) to come.