Question about tilting head saws

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Jim Lowder
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2023
    • 5

    Question about tilting head saws

    So I have a Rbi hawk 226vs ultra, and a Canadian Excalibur es30vs with tilting tables instead of the arm. Is the tilt arm saws how you all are make the blades bend for 3D looks? Also I read somewhere that all of the tilt arm scrolls are built in the same factory in Taiwan, so why would one be better than another? I have never operated a tilt arm saw, but I think I am about to buy one.
  • Sandy Oaks
    Denny
    Registered User - Level 2
    • Sep 2008
    • 7081

    #2
    If you are referring to 3D Compound cutting, the blade is 90 degrees to the table and not tilted. I use the tilting head for things like inlays and Carole's bowls. If you want a tilting arm, be sure it is rack and pinion. Look at other features that may fit your needs. As a Pegas dealer, I can help with Pegas questions.
    Denny
    ArtCrafters in Dayton, TN

    Comment

    • handibunny
      Carole
      Registered User - Level 2
      • Aug 2006
      • 4713

      #3
      It doesn’t matter whether the saw table tilts or the saw arm tilts. Either can be used for any project cut at an angle, and there’s a learning curve for each.

      I actually prefer the tilting table because the blade remains vertical. I find that at really steep angles, like 40 or 45 degrees, the rapidly moving tilting arm is very distracting and following the blade at that type of angle is a challenge. The only advantage I’ve found for the tilting arm is that a very large workpiece can be tricky to control on a tilting table. Since my blanks are seldom larger than 10” square, it’s not an issue.
      Carole

      Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

      Comment

      • hotshot
        Randy
        • Mar 2024
        • 2476

        #4
        Originally posted by Jim Lowder
        ....Also I read somewhere that all of the tilt arm scrolls are built in the same factory in Taiwan, so why would one be better than another?....
        I'll talk about this specific "slice" of your question, with more detail that you probably want or need.

        Most Tilting head saws do come from the same Taiwan factory, except Excalibur. So what happened with Excalibur was . . . General got bought by a Chinese investor, some China/Taiwan drama ensued, EX manufacturing moved to China. That transition resulted in a very problematic saw for many users. I warn everyone off the Chinese Excaliburs. If you find an older Taiwan Excalibur in good shape, those are good.

        So amongst the various Taiwan saws, some are more similar than others.

        Seyco is probably the most different, and some folks do love that saw, but it does not have the rack and pinion for the arm tilt that I personally prefer, and has a completely different platform it sits on. The arm is very similar to the other Taiwan saws. Unlike most of their competitors, Seyco only sells a few different products, and most of those are scroll saw related, so it is a very "Scroll Saw" focused company. Seyco is very small, but has a long history in the business with a good reputation for support.

        Jet has a saw with slightly different dimensions than all the other competitors, and a very unique blade clamp which Carole can tell you all about if you are interested. I would personally change that to a pegas clamp which fits the Jets also. Not sure how Jet support works, but they have a very good name in tools so I assume they have a viable support structure.

        King in the US, Carbatec and Axminster overseas are very similar, except Axminster comes with the better Pegas clamps. I'm not sure how serious issues are handled for any of these brands. I have the King 16", but have only used support once, and they were friendly and helpful, but I only had a simple question.

        Then you have Pegas which is similar to the King/Carbatec/Axminster brands, but does comes with the Pegas clamps, and I have been told they bolstered some of the internal components (bearings perhaps?). They also have a bigger table (sold separately) that can both fit the 21" Pegas and probably a few other 21" competitors. I'm sure the larger table won't fit Seyco, and probably not Jet. If there is a mechanical issue with Pegas, I'm not sure how technical support/repairs are handled, maybe Denny can answer that.

        Everyone has their preferences, but if I were buying a tilt head saw at this very moment, I would probably go with Pegas.


        -----Randy
        "Ever Striving, Never Arriving"
        website: http://www.coincutting.com

        Comment

        • Jim Lowder
          Junior Member
          • Feb 2023
          • 5

          #5
          Thank you all for the info. Sounds like it’s talent or practice issue not my saws. Wife already gave permission to buy a new one. I will wait tho

          Comment

          • handibunny
            Carole
            Registered User - Level 2
            • Aug 2006
            • 4713

            #6
            If you have a good saw, and can set the table accurately, you should be good to go. Give a holler if you need help. 😁

            Randy, I swapped out the clamps on the Jet for the Pegas clamps as soon as they became available. I found the Jet clamps just too fidgety for my taste.
            Last edited by handibunny; 02-02-2023, 04:11 PM.
            Carole

            Follow me on my blog: www.scrollsawbowls.blogspot.com

            Comment

            • Rolf
              The WoodMeister
              • Apr 2005
              • 13394

              #7
              I have both types of saw A tilting table Hawk g426 and an Older Excalibur with a tilting head. Unlike Carole for bevel cuts I prefer the tilting head I do larger projects and it is easier for me.
              Regarding compound cuts they are cut at 90 degrees.

              If I were in the market for a new saw I would buy a Pegas, Best all around features currently available on a scroll saw.
              Rolf
              RBI G4 26 Hawk, EX 16 with Pegas clamps, Nova 1624 DVR XP
              Philosophy "I don't know that I can't, therefore I can"
              Proud Member of the Long Island Woodworkers Club
              And the Long Island Scrollsaw Association

              Comment

              • Jim Lowder
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2023
                • 5

                #8
                Thank you everyone. I guess I just need to scroll more and have more patience with my abilities. You all are amazing

                Comment

                • cwmagee
                  Member - Level 2
                  Registered User - Level 2
                  • Dec 2013
                  • 817

                  #9
                  I own and use the EX21 the Excalibur anniversary model which was was among the last models manufactured in Taiwan. I have been using it for approximately 8 years. I replaced the blade clamps as soon as the Pegas clamps were available. In mid 2020 I replaced the table top with the larger Pegas Tabletop. The primary reason for the Tabletop upgrade was the larger work surface.

                  One added benefit with the tabletop upgrade, was the new tabletop seemed to dampen vibration. It is a smoother operating saw. I now operate the at nearly 100% blade speed.
                  cwmagee
                  aka Fibber
                  Producer of fancy firewood​

                  Comment

                  • Rolf
                    The WoodMeister
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 13394

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jim Lowder
                    Thank you everyone. I guess I just need to scroll more and have more patience with my abilities. You all are amazing
                    I have been scrolling for about 20 years and still learning.

                    Rolf
                    RBI G4 26 Hawk, EX 16 with Pegas clamps, Nova 1624 DVR XP
                    Philosophy "I don't know that I can't, therefore I can"
                    Proud Member of the Long Island Woodworkers Club
                    And the Long Island Scrollsaw Association

                    Comment

                    • hotshot
                      Randy
                      • Mar 2024
                      • 2476

                      #11
                      Originally posted by cwmagee
                      ....The primary reason for the Tabletop upgrade was the larger work surface.

                      One added benefit with the tabletop upgrade, was the new tabletop seemed to dampen vibration. . . .
                      And no annoying dust collection holes, for little pieces to catch on, right?

                      Since tilt arm style saws are my personal favorite . . . I can criticize it right? I hate the freaking dust collection mechanism on my King, and prefer the table on the older Green EX that didn't have that.
                      "Ever Striving, Never Arriving"
                      website: http://www.coincutting.com

                      Comment

                      • Bill Wilson
                        Senior Member
                        Registered User - Level 2
                        • Jun 2006
                        • 2980

                        #12
                        I've owned both tilting table and tilting head saws. My current saw is an EX-21 (pre-Chinese made version) with the tilting head. I have to say that for beveled cuts, I much prefer the EX over my previous tilting table saws (Craftsman and Dewalt). I think a lot of it is the rack & pinion angle adjustment system. It's very solid and tactile.

                        I've heard many good things about the Pegas and would likely have it at the top of my list, perhaps along with the King, if I were in the market for a new saw today.

                        I agree with Randy. I do not like the dust collection system on my EX. I long ago removed the hose fitting and the plastic membrane from underneath the table. I'd like to do something about those blasted holes...one of these days...

                        That said, it looks like you have 2 very good saws already. Unless you do a lot of beveled inlay work or stacked ring bowls, as Denny mentioned, I don't think you will be making a huge leap in functionality over the saws you currently own. However, I would never dissuade anyone from buying a new tool. I think that's part of the woodworker code and I don't want to risk losing my card. 😁
                        Homer : "Oh, and how is education supposed to make me feel smarter. Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain."

                        Comment

                        • cwmagee
                          Member - Level 2
                          Registered User - Level 2
                          • Dec 2013
                          • 817

                          #13
                          The last time I visited with Denny Winter 2020, I had an opportunity to try out the PEGA Saw that Denny has set up in his store. I was extremely impressed with the saw performance. It will be the saw that replaces my EX21 when I need a replacement. When I visite Denny I was considering purchasing it as my EX21 was increasing vibration. At that time Denny did not have a date when PEGAS would be shipping new saws. Since the Larger tables were available and interchangeable with the EX21, I decided to purchase the new table. SInce I installed the new table the Vibrations seem to disappear. I am not certain if the table is a stronger material or if just a difference in weight, because of the larger size.

                          As Randy mentioned, another benefit is no dust hoes to catch the small scrap pieces wood.
                          cwmagee
                          aka Fibber
                          Producer of fancy firewood​

                          Comment

                          • NC Scroller
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 5078

                            #14
                            I still use my factory dust collector on my pre Chinese Ex21. No, not for everything that I cut but primarily for compound cutting where we generate a lot of sawdust. I did enhance my dust collector by replacing the membrane wit a piece made on a 3D printer. The enhancements gives a bit of extra space under the table so small particles don't get trapped.
                            Scott
                            Creator of fine designer sawdust.

                            Comment

                            • hotshot
                              Randy
                              • Mar 2024
                              • 2476

                              #15
                              Originally posted by cwmagee
                              .... SInce I installed the new table the Vibrations seem to disappear....
                              I have to wonder if you didn't change your resonance point when you added mass. Obviously mass always helps this, but I know on my Hawk BM, there was a resonance vibration that kicked in at a very unfortunate speed, and on the EX and most of my saws, there is some speed where the vibrations increases. The Bushton folks supposedly could tweak something and move that resonance around in the "speed" spectrum.

                              Before I added Pegas Clamps, Speed 9 was the resonance/harmonics speed on my EX. After Pegas clamps, I think resonance moved outside the EX speed range.
                              "Ever Striving, Never Arriving"
                              website: http://www.coincutting.com

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...