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  • ChuckD
    replied
    Thanks for the info Todd, hope you keep us posted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rivari
    replied
    Earlin, I tried that approach when I first realized there was a problem. The entire shop/garage is all looped through the single GFI.

    When I told my wife about what we had discussed here on the forum concerning my problem she reminded me that our neighbor is an eletrician, I use the term reminded me loosely as I thought he did something else. Bottom line, we all take care of each other out here and I am sure he will be able to get me going in the right direction and only for the price of a good gin and tonic.

    We'll see what he comes up with.

    Leave a comment:


  • earlinjax
    replied
    Todd,
    When I noticed you had a Hawk it rang a bell for me. When I first got my Hawk, the first time I plugged it in, it tripped the GFI. I tried another cirucuit, also GFI protected, and it ran Ok. I talked with RBI and they said the saw will trip a weak GFI. If you have more than one protected circuit, try it in another. The circuit that mine tripped was protected by a GFI circuit breaker. It runs OK on a circuit protected by a GFI outlet. Not an electrician so don't know why, but I did find a soluttion that worked.

    EarlinJax

    Leave a comment:


  • GrayBeard Phil
    replied
    Hi all:

    Just for completeness of the discussion: GFI outlets are known as RCD devices or RCCB outside North America. They measure the imbalance between the Hot wire and the neutral wire, not the load. The assumption is if the current is not equal, it must be flowing somewhere else, like thru your body.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

    However, if you have a load that has lots of inductance (motor windings) or capacitance (starter capacitor) for a moment the current will not be the same between the Hot wire and the neutral wires, as these load devices soak up energy on startup.

    Aside and Completely irrelevant story: Back when the USA and Canada were being first being wired up for electricity in the homes, during the 1920's and 30's there were a lot of problems with the electricians getting the wiring correct. The story I was told is that the electricians went to the movies on the weekend, and a lot of the movies were Westerns. And this was true everywhere across North America. Therefore, even today The Bad Guy wears a black hat, and the Good Guy wears a White hat. You grab the black wire, and you will find out just how bad he can be. The White wire, being the good guy, will (SHOULD!) not harm you. But then, as any cowboy and indian move buff will confirm, sometimes the the bad guy starts out wearing the wrong hat, just to make the plot thicker.

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal Moore
    replied
    Yep!!! That won't cost anything but a little time. It could be that the inrush current to the saw is tripping it when the saw starts up. Some large motors draw "inrush current" that is 10 times the operating current when starting up. (don't know the inrush on small motors, most of the ones I worked with were well over 40 HP!!) If you already have a substantial load on the circuit it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back!! (Especially if your freezer compressor is running at the same time)

    Leave a comment:


  • bearfretworks
    replied
    Originally posted by Rivari
    I was hoping this would be something simple...
    I'm sure it is simple..........just might be expensively simple.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Rivari
    replied
    Dog gone, I guess a can't avoid the obvious, I will call a pro today and see what can be done. I was hoping this would be something simple...

    Leave a comment:


  • Albert
    replied
    It can be a real crap shoot determining just where a fault lies. I had a lamp with a three way bulb that was shorted *inside* the bulb. Replaced the bulb and everything was OK.

    Leave a comment:


  • bearfretworks
    replied
    Todd,

    When I bought my Jet mini-lathe, I had to add a new circuit to the garage as it popped the GFCI breaker every time I turned it on. The owners manual clearly stated: do not use on a GFCI. The contoller for the dc motor will fool a GFI outlet into thinking there's a ground fault.......

    Leave a comment:


  • Rivari
    replied
    Neal, I can't imagine the brushes could be worn already. I got my new Hawk just before I left last year and I have maybe 40 hours on the thing at the most. Do you think it would be worth testing the saw on another outlet (i.e. run an extension cord into the house to see if it trips a GFCI in there). Of all the items that are plugged in that are located in the shop/garage my chest freezer is the only thing that worries me. Could it be that something else is putting a heavy load on the system and that my saw is just pushing it over the edge?

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal Moore
    replied
    Todd...motors that have brushes are notorious for causing nusciance trips on GFI recepticals, especially if the brushes are worn. It might be as simple as changing the brushes in your saw. I'd check that first!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rivari
    replied
    Wow, thanks for all the input. I will hold off on messing with anything at this point. I did check all my outlets yesterday and for whatever reason two of them had a bit of "play" in them. I don't know why they wiggled around so much but I will assume it can't be right. Not wanting to burn my house down or shock the pudding out of myself I think I will have someone that knows what they are doing take a look at the problem.

    Marcel, the thing only trips with the saw in operation and only on start up. No other tool has caused a similiar problem. When I get home this evening I will see what kind of amps it is pulling, hopefully that information written on my saw somewhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal Moore
    replied
    Ground Faults

    Todd....I'm a retired electrician and can give you some good advice on this one. GFI recepticals are not like regular circuit breakers. They are "ground fault interrupters". The slightest hint of a grounded circuit will trip them. They do not protect the circuit from current overloads...they protect YOU from becoming electrocuted as a result of malfunctioning equipment..for example, a blow drier being dropped into the bathtub. They are prone to "nusiciance trips" and occasionally also just wear out if tripped too many times. The problem may be that the equipment you're running off the GFI is defective and the interrupter is simply doing its job. As stated earlier, all the recepticals down stream of the GFI will be protected by it so it doesn't matter which one you're plugged in to. If you are electrically challenged I strongly recommend an electrician check that out for you and also the saw that's causing it to trip. Just a suggestion my friend, but even 120VAC is dangerous, and I'd like to see you around the board a lot longer!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • sawdustus
    replied
    sawdustus of hiawatha

    Todd,

    The first thing to check before you buy a new GFCI outlet is the size of the breaker or fuse. Like all circuits, the breaker size is determined by the wire size. A 15 amp breaker takes # 14 wire. A 20 amp breaker takes #12 wire. # 12 is thicker than # 14 and can therefore handle more electricity before overheating and causing the breaker to trip.

    Do not try to put a 20 amp GFCI on a circuit with #14 wire with a 15 amp breaker. Doing that will negate the usefullness of the GFCI. They are designed to trip in milliseconds thereby preventing a large overload from passing through the wire, or you, and shorting it out in the wall or in your circuit box. They are mainly there to prevent shocks to you from a short in your tools or appliances caused by either moisture or faulty wiring. By contrast, the main breaker trips in tenths of a second or longer after the short is detected; too long a time to prevent a nasty jolt to you. If you use too large a GFCI you are effectively making the main breaker act as your safety for sudden shorts.

    All that being said, all the other suggestions are valid. PS. I learned all of this from an electrician friend before he retired. Good luck. By the way, when you do replace a GFCI, you will notice two sets of terminals on the outlet. One is labeled LINE and one is labeled LOAD. If you think of a water tank with an inlet and an outlet for the water, the LINE terminals (think IN ) is where the electricity comes into the outlet and the LOAD (think OUT) terminals are where it leaves the outlet to go to other outlets or switches.

    If you do try to replace the outlet yourself, first turn off the breaker and then open the outlet box, pull out the old outlet with the wires still attached, and label the wires with some tape BEFORE you remove them from the old outlet. Then put them back onto the labeled terminals on the new outlet in the same place they were on the old outlet. If the circuit keeps tripping, first try switching the load and line wires. This sometimes works because very old GFCI outlet were labeled differently than the newer ones are (it happened to me at a friends house). If this doesn't work call an electrician because you have a more serious problem to find.

    All this being said, all the other suggestions are valid. PS. I learned all of this from an electrician friend before he retired. Good luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • MikeDingas
    replied
    I agree with Marcel; do not replace the GFI outlet with a standard one. Although the outlet itself is well away from contact with water, what about the saw or drill or anything else plugged into it? The GFI is there to drop the circuit if a short is sensed; doesn't matter whether the short is right at the outlet or 20 feet away at the end of an extension cord.

    Check for loose wires in the outlet. If that's not an issue, I would suggest getting a new GFI as the cheapest solution. If it solves the problem great. If not call an electrician.

    Leave a comment:

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  • Rolf
    Reply to Frustrated
    by Rolf
    What model Craftsman! Without that information we can't look up the saw and what type of clamp it has.
    Today, 07:20 AM
  • NC Scroller
    Reply to Frustrated
    by NC Scroller
    I am guessing that your clamps have probably spread due to usage. I am not aware of any aftermarket clamps that fit your saw. Did you look at ereplacementparts.com to see if they sell clamps for your model? Sorry I could not be of more help.
    Yesterday, 11:24 AM
  • Daddy's scroller
    Reply to Frustrated
    by Daddy's scroller
    I have a craftsman saw. The blade just slips out.
    05-22-2022, 07:00 PM
  • Daddy's scroller
    Reply to Frustrated
    by Daddy's scroller
    No. I haven't tried that yet...
    05-22-2022, 06:55 PM
  • Chance13
    Reply to Frustrated
    by Chance13
    I put those on my 20" Dewalt a couple years ago. Big improvement from the one Dewalt had....
    05-22-2022, 11:08 AM
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