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Workshop ponderings

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  • Workshop ponderings

    Every morning before I head into the shop, I will read over the forums. Granted I don't get right into every thread, because it would surely beat any best seller on the market... but I do try to preview most of it. I am aware of the many talented and knowledgable folks here on SSWC forum. Hey we have over 1000 members, now. For those who want to check out the competition, lets face it, we rock!

    Many of the members are willing to lay it all out there. Share their knowledge and experience. I believe this place has become the place to go if you really want to know something. The forum runs well (software and administration) and the members are active.

    So today while sawing, I had this thought..... How would you feel if your comments/advice/ideas/suggestions were used by some of the prominent personalities in scrolling? As a designer/writer I am inspired by many folks on the forums and those who do inspire me to take an idea a little further, I talk with them about it. When I see an idea or project that I just sit back and think "wow, that's something" I try and connect that person with someone who will put that idea out there and give the original creator (of the idea or design) the credit.

    For example, if someone posted questions such as what technique you used to finish something or something you yourself worked out the logistics for.... what would your reaction be to seeing it picked up and used by someone else?

    Are the topics and contributions on forums free for the taking .... lets hear you're opinion.

  • #2
    Don't know about anyone else but anything I put up here is absolutely free for anyone reading it and I hope at least some of my ramblings have helped someone along the way. As a matter of fact, I recommended this forum, and our large pool of experience and expertise, in my book for those that have questions about ANY form of scrolling. One can virtually receive an "instant" answer when he or she needs it. This is the ONLY forum I participate in simply because I consider it as sort of our own big scrolling club. No dues, no fees and lots of fine friends!!! We even have our own publication which features designs and articles by many of our members. It don't get any better that that!!! BTW.....THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT....Just the facts as I see them.
    If it don't fit, don't force it....get a bigger hammer!!


    • #3
      I really like that thought Neil,.... our own club. Cool!


      • #4
        Neal's speaking for me, too.

        To my mind, we develop and grow as a society by teaching others and passing on our skills. Anything which inhibits this process is something that I find repulsive. I know there are strong arguments in favor of protecting some intellectual property, such as pattern copyright laws, but I can't help wonder where we'd be if Pythagoras had said one morning, "Listen up guys, I've worked out this really neat relationship between the three sides of a right-angled triangle. I'm going to patent it."

        Okay... so we'd have lots of youngsters who were all the happier for not having to study geometry .

        Just recently I developed a new technique for ebonising wood and posted details here. I was delighted when Bob told me that he was going to pass on the tip in the magazine (Bob, I take it the check's still in the post ?) because it's important to me that our activity should be organic. It needs to grow and new techniques need to be identified and mastered if scrolling is to flourish. Moreover, if someone adopts one of my patterns or techniques to their own advantage, then good luck to them - imitation is a very sincere form of flattery, and I like it!

        On the other hand, I'd be extremely upset if I developed something and published details here, only to find that somebody else then tried to pass it off as their own without acknowledgment. When something is given freely to all, that gift should be honored by those who take advantage of it.

        There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted.
        (Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)


        • #5
          Hi Toni,

          Nice topic

          By it's nature the forum is public domain.

          Anything written here is available to anyone since you don't need to be a member to read the threads (although it's nice when lurkers start to realize that we are genuine people that don't bite, and they join the club to discuss.)

          If I post any advice or technique here, it is for anyone to try. If someone uses it and includes it in a publication giving me credit for the inspiration, good, if not... may the fleas of a thousand camels... no, sorry, that's a different situation. I meant to say if not... then the people here would know where they saw it first.
          And it's no biggie since most of the stuff I say here I read somewhere else, ...and I have to admit that I don't always remember the source myself, so no credit is given by myself most of the time.

          My experience is an amalgam of all that I read, viewed, heard and tried myself. (And there you have it: the synopsis of life in 15 words )

          I don't think I've discovered any new woodworking technique personally; So no claim to fame there. I'm not a professional woodworker, so I don't live by this and can afford to "give" away any trade secrets I may have.

          And if my advice is good enough to help people, even if someone else took the credit for it, then I've accomplished something positive that I can be proud of in my heart.

          And those are my thoughts on the subject this morning. I'll let you know if I change my mind later


          DW788. -Have fun in the shop or it isn't a hobby anymore.

          NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gill
            On the other hand, I'd be extremely upset if I developed something and published details here, only to find that somebody else then tried to pass it off as their own without acknowledgment. When something is given freely to all, that gift should be honored by those who take advantage of it.
            This about sums up my feelings on it. As far as it being public domain, that is not correct. I'd suggest reading 10 Myths about Copyrights.

            I'd rather be asked. Granted, there's not a heck of a lot I've posted that I would care much about, but I have posted tutorials and such on other forums and I would be most upset if they showed up elsewhere without my knowledge.
            Scrollsaw Patterns Online
            Making holes in wood with an EX-30, Craftsman 16" VS, Dremel 1680 and 1671


            • #7
              I feel exactly like Neal and Gill, any info, tips or help that I put out there is free for the taking. It is a nice feeling when someone has benefited (is that a word?) by a tip you've posted and they react with a PM of thanks. I have often thought, what a great book it would be if someone could take all the great tips and info from this forum and put them together in one reference book.

              I must admit, until I found this forum, I was very limited in my scrolling. With the exception of chess sets, I did more woodworking where I incorporated some scrolling, but I have learned so much about fret work, thanks to this forum, it has become my primary craft.(oops did I use that word).

              And now is a good time to thank everyone for the knowledge and experience that makes this such a great site.
              LIFE'S SHORT, USE IT WELL


              • #8
                Well said, Neal, well said. I totally agree. Someone should wright a book on our comments, advice, ideas, suggestions, and helpful hints. I should think it would be a rather lengthy book, tho.

                I haven't been at this too long but you can use mine (how ever useful, or not, it might be).

                Oh, well, that's my tuppence.


                My saw is a DeWalt788 Measure twice; cut once; count fingers after cut


                • #9
                  I should think it would be a rather lengthy book, tho
                  And lengthy books usually don't get read all the way through. Besides, it's a lot easier to ask a question here and get an answer or two than to thumb through a book. I haven't posted here a lot lately due to other things in my life, but I do visit a couple of times a day.

                  There's a fine line between woodworking and insanity, I'm just not sure which side of the line I'm on!


                  • #10
                    This is a great topic.
                    Knowledge should be free, credit should be given to the originator and everyone should benefit from the product.

                    I wonder how many crafts in the past fell into obscurity due to secrecy.

                    Recently I have been looking for information on Gothic architecture, specifically Gothic tracery. The information out there is limited. I have found what I need but it was hard work and was not free.

                    I do not condone plagiarism, or copyright infringement, but we have not only a right to share information, I feel we have an obligation.
                    A community is only as good as it's citizens and if the scrolling community can mimic this forum then the hobby of woodworking will have risen to a whole new level.
                    CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
                    "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
                    Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21


                    • #11
                      As a newcomer, and a scrolling rookie, I definately take more than I give from the group, but at the same time, as a rookie, , I often experiment when caught in that heat-of-the-moment-I-need-a-solution-but-I-don't-know-jack scenario. If I share that idea and it gets the wheels spinning in one of the " sharp blade's " heads, then they tweak it with their knowledge and expertise ....bully ! We all win Credit or shared credit is nice but in the long run, the lack of such would not keep me up at nite. As someone else said, the people here would know the source(s), and the subsequent pats on the back from a group of kindred spirits and the knowledge that I contributed to the resource pool is ( to me ) a treasure in itself.
                      As with any established group it is the newcomers who keep it fresh and remind us from whence we came. I joined this group shy and nervous and somewhat intimidated, but the " old timers " opened their arms and made me feel welcome and comfortable. PM's with advice, encouragement,personal greetings, etc. brought me right into the fold. I'm still a newcomer, but now with a little history and an elevated " comfort level " , I can be one of the ones to help ease the trials and tribulations of someone who posts ...." new member here ......" . The circle completes itself and the group grows stronger.

                      Bottom line....we keep it best by giving it away

                      Sorry for the ramble, I'm off today and it's too hot to work in the shop
                      DW788 and Hawk 226

                      " Please let me grow to be the man my dog thinks I am "


                      • #12
                        Bottom line....we keep it best by giving it away
                        (How did y'all do that, so it shows in a nice little blue box??)

                        Anyhow, that about sums it up, and rather eloquently, at that.

                        The so called "fine arts" such as oil painting have traditionally been held back by the reluctance of the artists to share techniques.

                        If you look at the great leaps woodcarving and scrolling have taken in the past few years, I think it is primarily due to all the sharing that goes on - elevates the whole art form.

                        That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it (for now, of course)


                        • #13
                          I have to agree with Neal and Gill. Sorry Kevin. Anything posted on a forum is fair game and should be discussed and passed on. "Tutorials" containing common knowledge materials like finishing techniques, etc cannot be considered "owned" by any one individual. Zaffino has mentioned that he uses BLO and mineral spirits in a 50/50 mix in several of his articles, but there are others who have used that finish for years and it is not his even if he does mention it in a copyrighted article. Plagarism is the "intentional" use of another's original material without proper acknowledgement/notation. "Knowledge" is the accumulation of what we have read and done over the years and can come from many and varied sources. You are not expected to mention the guy that got hit in the head with an apple every time you mention "gravity."
                          Old Mooner


                          • #14
                            Thanks for chiming in Moon

                            You are well grounded as usual.
                            I always think of knowledge as being a trivial commodity unless we have the wisdom to apply it correctly.

                            I often hear Thomas Edison as being the inventor of the light bulb, and many anecdotes have arisen from not having 1000 failures but discovering 1000 ways the filament didn't work.

                            Now I will ruffle a few feathers.

                            He didn't invent that filament, he bought the patent rights.
                            Woodward and Evans created a carbon filament in a bulb of Nitrogen one year prior to Edison's patent. They could not raise capital to pursue their invention so they sold the patent to Thomas Edison.
                            He then improved the design to make the filament last longer.

                            This is trivia. It really doesn't matter who made the invention, we are all benefiting from it.

                            proudly Canadian
                            CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
                            "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
                            Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21


                            • #15
                              On the invention of electricity ---- Didn't the inventor of electricity get over-looked ?? Hummmmmm seems that man has many names but no one gives him the credit -- that goes without much thought that God invented electrisity but man just learned how to harness it --- Sorry for the sermon but I just have to give credit where the real credit goes on this one.. Stepping down from my pulpit for now...


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