Question for Tony Ward

[Marsha]

Tony,
In the thread regarding stack cutting you suggested using double sided carpet tape for stack cutting, because it does not leave a glue residue. Would you mind sharing your secret for releasing the tape. I have been working for hours this evening trying to get the carpet tape off my ornaments which I stack cut, and I can't get the tape off, never mind the glue. So please, an answer would be good here because I am so frustrated trying to get this tape off. So far I have tried turpentine, a scrapper and Goo Gone.
TIA
Marsha

[William Young (SE BC)]

Marsha.
I hope Tony has some enlightening facts for you but in the meantime until he answers I will paste a message here that I posted on another site regarding using masking tape on the wood first before the pattern and after the stack was all stapled together with no two sided tape (or anything else) being used between layers in the stack. . I was asked why just cheap white masking tape could not be use and this was my reply.

use the purple (mauve) 2" wide masking tape directly on the wood . Then I spray with Duro spray adhesive from Walmart (blue and white can) which is half the price of 3M 77. No need to be carefull about the drying time of the spray adhesive or being carefull about the exact amount to use because when applying it on top of the masking tape you can slap it on wet or at any stage of it getting 'tacky'.

Your question about using white masking tape is answered this way in my opinion.

If you leave the white tape on for any length of time you will have a hell of a time getting it off the wood when you are finished cutting and it will leave a residue and could break some delicate fretwork.

The order in which masking tapes have their amount of adhesion is

White , . . the most , green less, . .blue less and purple (mauve) the least. Also, the purple one can be left on for weeks or even a month if you don't get around to finishing cutting the piece and it will still peel off with zero residue and not be stuck enough to affect even the most intricate fretwork. It has the least amount of tack but the longest release time of all of them.

I have tried them all from white to green to blue to purple. The purple does cost more but for me it is well worth the difference in price. I have used it on all fretwork I have cut on my scrollsaw ever since I first tried it just a short while just before making my Dome clock and found out it worked so well..

It is also the hardest to find so I grab up a few rolls when I see it displayed . I can generally find it at Walmart or Home Depot but stock varies from store to store and from month to month.. .

W.Y.

Hope this all makes sense and if not don't be afraid to ask why.

PS. You probably won't get the Duro spray in Canada Walmart. I get half a dozen cans when it goes on Sale in Walmart south of the border for around $3.99 a can but I have never been able to find it in Canada.
W.Y.

[Rainman2014]

marsha

Marsha, Wy is absoultly right . He suggested this some time ago and it works perfectly, althought I wasnt aware of the stickiness of the different colors.
Carpet tape will mess you up. Bills way also makes doing a Zaffino pattern a little less scary. I actuallly put my finish on first ,then the tape, and then the pattern. Once completed the tape comes right off, I put one coat of finish on in order to get the inside cuts covered and all is done. Thanks for the tip Bill, it has helped me alot !!! I have a question Bill. Dou you like the duro spray ? I tried it yrs ago but felt it didnt hold the pattern very well. I've been using the doubled price 3m product and i almost tried duro again but backed off. Have they inproved it ? It was proably something I was doing wrong. Let me know if you would please . Thanks, Rain Man

[Marsha]

Bill & Rainman,
Thank you both for your enlightening suggestions. I will certainly tuck them away for later, but in the mean time, do you have any suggestions on how to remove the tape from the project I've just cut out? I'm fairly new to fretwork and I've cut out the ornaments from Theresa Ekdom's patterns in the holiday edition of SSW, the cutting went so well and now the (16) pieces might be ruined unless I find away to remove this tape, without using Paint thinner or any of the other harsh chemical based products out there.
I have used carpet tape before, on Pine and Poplar, and never had the problem removing the tape that I am having this time. I thought maybe the tape was having a reaction to the oil in the oak, but I used this very same tape when I stacked and cut the bases for my lamps, and I didn't have this problem removing the tape, could things like, heat and humidity cause the problem.
As far as glueing the pattern on, I tried taping the wood before I put the pattern on when I made my lamp bases, and I did not like that method because the tape got all chewed up when I sanded the drilled entry holes and I had to retape the wood and use a nail to repunch the holes.
I use Elmer's spray adhesive, which I find holds the pattern just fine, and with the use of a hair blower comes off very easy. There is very little glue residue left behind and I find with a bit of sanding, what little glue is left behind comes off very easy. With the exception of compound cutting, I don't usually cover my projects with packaging tape.
Thanks again guys
Marsha

[Paul S WI]

Marsha,
I use 3m carpet tape and for removal I dab a little mineral spirits on the area. After a few (15 seconds or so) tape and glue residue come right off. I have even dabbed a little mineral spirits between stacked pieces near the tape of Zaffino cuttings to loosen the tape (rather than prying the layers apart) so the delicate cuttings (hangers) wouldn't be damaged. This loosened the glue up very nicely. -Paul

[Marsha]

Thanks Paul,
I quess I'm off to buy some mineral spirits, it seems like that's the only way I will get the glue off.
Marsha

[William Young (SE BC)]

Rainman;

I have a question Bill. Dou you like the duro spray ? I tried it yrs ago but felt it didnt hold the pattern very well. I've been using the doubled price 3m product and i almost tried duro again but backed off.

Duro is the only brand I use. I had too much trouble with nozzle clogging with 3M-77.
With using the mauve tape on the wood first and then spraying the back of the pattern with the adhesive , one does not have to be carefull of too much or too little spray or how many seconds to wait to get just the right tackiness as when applying it to bare wood. Just spray lots on (it's cheap)and slap it onto the mauve tape which is already on the wood and rub it down from the center out with a folded up rag.
One thing I have found with any of the sprays is to read the directions on the can. It says shake well before use and it means it because without shaking you can have it come out in blobs rather than a nice spray.
Also, with any of them, make sure the spray is at room temperature . If working in a cold shop in the winter, keep your spray cans in the house and only take them to the shop when you need them.
With the mauve tape and spray method there is zero residue left on the wood and no further cleaning or sanding required . The tape and the pattern all peel off together usually in one piece and if there are a few little pieces left on , they easily peel of as well very easily with no chemicals or heat required.
Slightly overlaping the edges of the 2" wide mauve tape when applying it to the wood will allow it to come all off in one piece 95% of the time.
W.Y.

[Paul S WI]

WY, Rainman or anyone who has tried this method.

Regarding placing the Purple or Blue tape on first followed by the pattern - What has been your experience with Zaffino type (delicate fretwork with hangers) cuttings when removing the tape?

I have not tried the tape method yet (on a Zaffino type cutting). Probably cause I'm just happy to get through a delicate fretwork project without breakage and don't want to peal tape off with a piece of wood stuck to it after all that work. I have used this method on other types of projects without the delicate fretwork where breakage is not a concern and it works great.

I guess I would like to get some experienced advice rather than being the experimentor!!

Paul S.

[William Young (SE BC)]

Paul.
I cannot speak for a Zaffino cutting because I have never done one but I have done some very delicate portrait cuttings as well as other very delicate and detailed projects and never had a problem with any fretwork being damaged when removing the mauve tape and pattern all in one piece.. The mauve tape will definitely be the most gentle one so if you want to save a few $$ per roll use the blue for regular cuttings and the mauve for the most delicate ones.
If the fretwork pieces get any smaller than about 1/16th of an inch, I suppose loosening a pattern by wetting it with mineral spirits and then wiping off the residue with a cloth or brush like I used to would be just as aggressive as any other way . And there is no sanding required after using the tape method that I use so that in itself is one step eliminated that could also cause breakage of delicate pieces.

Best thing to do is to try different methods and use what you like best and what works for you.

I like the mauve tape method very much and don't even bother with the blue tape any more . The method just saves me a lot of time and without any messy odors and chemical cleanup of the wood that I had in the other methods I used to use.

Just because I do it this way doesn't necessarily mean it is the right way for everyone but it is certainly the right way for me.

Have fun.
W.Y.

[Jediscroller]

I always use the tape first, then pattern method. The majority of my cuttings are very intricate portrait type patterns and breakage when removing the tape has never been a problem. Just be sure the bottom is supported and take your time while removing the tape.

[Paul S WI]

Thanks for the feedback Kevin and W.Y.. Next delicate cutting gets the Mauve tape. ~Paul

[Rainman2014]

zaffino cuttings

Paul, I do a lot of jeff's patterns and I dont recommend the tape first on some. I could see the tape breaking a piece or to one some of his work. I just completed the one with two elephants running through water and I would'nt try that one with tape. In fact, on the real tough ones I will put my finish on before I do the project, place the pattern on using my spray, and then using mineral spirts to take it off. I will then put one more coat of finish on to get the insides and thats it. Hope that helps . Rain Man

[Paul S WI]

Thanks Rainman - That will save me some aggravation. ItsyBitsy pieces get no tape. Will just need to look the pattern over carefully first. I do like the challenge of those (Zaffino) type of patterns the more I do them. ~Paul

[ChuckD]

My system for doing all fretwork, including Jeff Z and O'Griz, is to, of course, stack 5 or 6 1/8 inch bb. If it is possible I do use brads to keep it together but the way I tape it it don't move a bit. The brads are insurance. I cover the entire front of the stack with the cheapest masking tape I can find, starting with one going sideways then one up and down. Then I spray the pattern and put it on immediately. I use 3m that I got a bunch of on sale.. Cut out everything, the pieces with the brads last. If at anytime I am not sure of the stableness (sp) of a cut I will tape the piece that was cut out back into the cut to help support it. Usually use scotch tape for this. When finish cutting I remove the tape from around the sides and leave the tape on just the face of first piece. I then put Mineral Sprits or paint thinner in flat cookie pan and let the first piece only soak. Most of the times it will just lift off and sometimes it will even stay in the MS. If it breaks or anything, it becomes as Bill calls it, designer firewood and the second piece become the main piece. No glue no fuzzies no problems, which is the way I like it