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  • Kid caught stealing dad's smoke's

    Im asking this cause I think of you guy's as family. What do you do when you notice a new pack of cigerette's has been opened, not by me, and there is one missing? And you KNOW it could only be one of two people, the 13 year old daughter, or the 11 year old boy. My gut told me the boy did it and I was right. Now I know what would happen to me when I was a kid and got into dad's smoke's, I would be made to sit with dad and smoke untill I got sick, I know this cause I had to do it.

    I am tempted to do it but I probally wont.

    So what would you guy's do?

    And on top of that he lied to me about it, now my big thing is if you do something like that fess up to and the punishment wont be as bad, and they know this, but he sat there and lied to my face about it!!!

    When I found out about it after he finally confessed, his mother sent him to his room for the night because neither one of us new what to do. So I'm asking for a little advice here, what would you do?

  • #2
    good question

    I know this is really none of my business but I iwll stick my 2 cents worth in here as well......I agree that if it was fessed up to immediately then the punishment should be less but since he lied to you about it I believe it should be harsher. I Also believe the punishment should fit the crime, so with that in mind sending him to his room with all his stuff and where he can enjoy doing whatever it is that 11 year old boys do these days (been along time since I was 11 so I really don't know what that would be) is probably not going to accomplish much. In my way of thinking kids do not like to do things that are related to the work they have to do for school so maybe having him research the hazards of smoking, the wrongness (is that a word) of taking what is not his, and the reasons lying about things is not the thing to do, and take all that and write you an essay about it and maybe have him do it over the upcoming weekend where he can't do anything else until it is finished. On top of learning what the dangers are it ma7y even helop him in the long run when he has to start writing essays in school, give him a head start on how to research his topic and put it into a written report.

    JUst my 2 cents hope it gives you some kind of idea or at least made you laugh a little.

    Wayne
    You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus...Mark Twain

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    • #3
      GREAT idea Wayne, Thank you!

      Comment


      • #4
        It's difficult for me to address these sorts of issues for a number of reasons. Firstly, so much depends on the nature of the individuals involved. Secondly, I don't have kids of my own, although I did have to sort out a niece of mine who was sent to me after getting involved in drugs and a murder - it was only by the grace of God that she wasn't the victim. However, I have worked in youth clubs and trained youngsters (albeit in a military environment).

        I'd ask you to consider how effective the way your father treated you was when he made you smoke the cigarettes until you were sick. You still took up smoking, didn't you? Another thing to consider is that I'm sure your son knows better than to take your stuff without your knowledge. For him to do so suggests that his need for the cigarettes outweighed his conditioning against theft. This implies that he's probably been smoking for quite a while.

        He's at an age where he'll be more susceptible to influence from his peers rather than his parents. However, if you try to influence who he sees then he's more likely to resent you. Adolescence is a time when many youngsters push the boundaries that have been set for them by their parents and test the reasons why those boundaries have been set. Advice such as, "Don't do that, it's bad for you" becomes a challenge.

        I'm not a believer in punishing youngsters for undesirable behaviour. As I said, I've found this just breeds resentment and tends to entrench the recalcitrance. To my mind, it's better to reinforce the good that they do with rewards and to engage them as adults in discussing the effects of their misdeeds. Of course, at 11 years of age he won't be able to respond in the way that you'd expect of an adult, but at least he'll gain confidence in you as parents. The notion of drawing his attention to the damage that smoking does is a good one - give him independent information that he can use to reach his own conclusion. I'd also suggest that you look at the positive influences in his life, such as sportsmen he admires. It might be worth asking him to consider how their careers would have progressed if they had smoked. It might even be worth asking the coach of a team he supports to write him, saying how much he disapproves of smoking and why.

        One thing I've learned over the years is that we don't do anything unless we feel it's beneficial. If we're seen to behave negatively, it's almost certainly because that behaviour brings its own sorts of benefits. For example, people who drink too much probably have some underlying problem that alcohol makes go away. You can break practically any form of negative behaviour if you can learn what the perceived benefits are, and then making those perceived benefits less attractive. At the same time, it helps if you can reinforce the contrary (ie good) behaviour by emphasising the good feelings that such behaviour brings.

        I hope I haven't gone on too long . In a nutshell, I'd say the challenge is for you to turn this negative experience into a positive one. Everything I've said about the cigarette theft can be applied to the potentially much more serious matter of lying, but it'll be much harder to address the deceitfulness until you've got the smoking sorted out.

        Gll
        There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted.
        (Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)

        Comment


        • #5
          Superman,

          You are not going to like my answer, but here goes:

          You feel you need to punish the kid?
          Why?
          - Because he smokes?
          - Because he stole from you?
          - Because he lied to you?

          Let's backtrack:

          3- He lied to you:
          I don't know the circumstances of the interrogation, and I don't know you as a person. Are you a strict dad, a leniant one, what is your relationship with yoour kids... All relevant information that is unavailable.
          I said interrogation, cause I know that's what I would have put my kid through, and you mentionnoed that he finally fessed up.

          Maybe he lied because he knew how much it would hurt you to know he stole from you? May be because he was scared of the consequences? Maybe because he knew you would be really mad that he smoked?

          2- He stole from you:
          There could be many reasons for this:
          A reason of opportunity: You leave your cigarette pack lying around all the time and this is not the first time he takes some, except this is the first time the pack was left sealed and you caught him.
          A reason of distress: The kid wants attention and getting caught, although probably subconciously done, is getting him attention, negative one but attention none the less.
          He felt safer stealing from you than from the store.

          1- He smokes:
          Now that is the base of this dilemna of yours and unfortunately I have to say SO WHAT? You are his hero, his dad, his example in life, and guess what? YOU SMOKE!
          Even if you tell your kid that smoking is bad for their health, and you can't quit and bla bla bla... you are still telling him it's ok to smoke by doing it yourself.
          If you have been smoking in the house when they were present, you may even have built a need for nicotine in them from secondary smoke.

          The only choices I see you have are the following:
          - Start paying for his smokes and apologise for making him steal from you to get some
          - Quit smoking ( and if your wife smokes, she needs to do the same) and show the kids that you walk the talk, and apologise for making him steal from you
          - Tell him that he can smoke, but he has to pay for his own, and apologise for making him steal from everyone since he is too young to afford cigarettes.

          I told you you wouldn't like my answer.
          What your kid did is basically wrong, but normal: You are the base of the problem with YOUR smoking. and him not being able to afford it.
          You definitely need to talk to him about stealing:

          I told my daughter that if she ever stole from me again, I'd treat her like any thief in my house and open a kitchen drawer, put her fingers in, and slam the drawer so hard it would break all of them! She had taken money in my wallet under pressure from a visiting "friend". She was eleven at the time and I noticed cigarettes missing from my pack about the same time. She admitted to taking them, that she normally took them from her mom's ex-boyfriend.
          I told her I was not going to pay for her smokes, and she needed to get a job delivering papers or something in order to pay for them.
          I also quit smoking just after that. Was hard as hell, and failed twice, but she saw the struggle. And we are non-smokers today and have been for a few years.

          Good Luck, you need it.
          Respectfully,
          Marcel
          http://marleb.com
          DW788. -Have fun in the shop or it isn't a hobby anymore.

          NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

          Comment


          • #6
            I had a 12 year old step son years ago that lied to us about cheating on a test. We lived in a neighborhood that had a field behind us which had numerous undergrowth. We both climbed over the fence and commenced to cleaning out the underbrush from under our fence. We worked all day and it was amazing how his attitude changed by the afternoon. To my knowledge he never intentially lied to us again. I found that teens and preteens don't like too much physical labor and this was the worst kind of punishment for him.
            This worked for our family, I wish you the best.
            Bill
            Delta P-20

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            • #7
              Now I know what would happen to me when I was a kid and got into dad's smoke's, I would be made to sit with dad and smoke untill I got sick, I know this cause I had to do it.

              Well, here is a couple thoughts from what I see. The above quote from you is not logical. Simply because this obviously did not stop you from smoking. My other thought with this situation is that your son is getting at the age where it begins leaving the nurturing mother for example and is turning to you for what a man should be. You are, giving him the example that smoking is what a man does. Therefore, he is going to want to smoke.

              My advise: Quit smoking, not just tell him, but show him that smoking is a very bad health habit to get into. Even tell him your sorry for the example you have given him and that you need his help to quit smoking.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well Ranger, as unpopular as it is going to make me, I must present a view that is a bit different than some presented here. There is an ingrained prejudice today against all smokers and it is obvious here in the advice you are getting. It has to be your fault and your problem because you smoke. Bull! Non-smokers just can't get it through their head that some folks actually enjoy smoking. Yes, it can be bad for you but so is overeating, drinking too much beer, and just about anything else that humans do.
                Apologize to your son? For what? That is the same reasoning that blames you if you leave your car unlocked and it is stolen. It is not the thief's fault, it is yours because you bad old person, you tempted him. Or blaming the bartender because you got snockered and had a wreck on the way home. The kid has to develop responsibility for his actions, no matter what mom or dad do. My dad would have done the same thing your dad would have done--made me smoke until I got sick. Not, as some people think, to make me cease smoking, but to punish me for stealing and lying. You did not make him do either. He did it himself. I think the main point is that the child is too young to make decisions about smoking, drinking, etc. He needs to be told that until he is old enough to make those decisions, that you are going to make them for him. My parents would not let me drink coffee until I was 13. I could not smoke even though my dad smoked cigars all his life, and I did not have my first beer until I was old enough to sneak one with my buddies. Now I drink coffee by the gallon, have a beer when I want, and, after 20 years abstention, have begun smoking my pipe again. I am neither a liar nor a criminal.
                You have to realize that some of this stuff is a "right of passage" and all kids will test/try things that they see others (including their parents) do. I would tell my son that the act of smoking itself is not the problem. The stealing and lying are the higher crimes. There is a lot more that can be said here, but enough for now.
                Moon
                Old Mooner

                Comment


                • #9
                  Been there done that

                  I used to smoke, way too much, around 3 packs a day.
                  I didn't even notice when one went missing.

                  Now I don't smoke I gave it up 80 pounds ago.
                  My oldest son did smoke for some time, and still sneaks the odd cigar.

                  I sometimes think that they guilt from being caught stealing, telling lies to the ones we love and disappointing those who care about us can be quite a burden.

                  I also think that someone who is eleven made the choice. They chose to do all of these things.
                  Perhaps it would be beneficial for them to chose their own punishment.
                  They tend to be heavier on themselves than we would be. The compassion is then removed from the equation.

                  Most behaviour of kids that age is influenced by peer pressure, just as we were influenced by peer pressure. It isn't easy being a kid. Just like it isnt easy for us to remember that far back.

                  Just some blabberings of someone who was there once....on both sides of the problem.


                  PS. this forum is certainly growing into a viable community. It is wonderful to see so many users concerened.
                  CAЯL HIRD-RUTTEЯ
                  "proud member of the best scroll sawing forum on the net."
                  Ryobi SC180VS scroll saw EX21

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I know you aren't going to like my answer either but it is as honest ans straight forward as it gets-- so sit down and listen because I have a lot to say on this matter
                    First off ask him WHY he chose to smoke - the answer there may be the cure. I know when I was a kid -back then it was to be accepted -
                    Wish I hadn't gotten as hooked as I did. If he or your daughter ( betting your daughter has tried or is tempted to do the same thing)
                    All the punishment in the world isn.t going to stop anyone who wants to smoke. You said your Dad made you sit and smoke a whole pack? Didn't work did it- just made you sick. You still smoke.
                    The stealing of cigs is normal for a kid- but if let go it will get to the point he will take anything he wqnts from you, That needs addressing .Maybe tell him if he feels he has to steal from you then you have failed him as a father and since kids have this idol worship of a good pararent- that will shock him -But it will make him think Your goal at his age and from now own is to get him to think before he leaps - if he thinks he will hurt you - depending on his image of you - he may do it to hurt -but then he may Not do it because it hurts you.
                    you can tell him about the pitfalls of smoking- that won't work either unless you can get him to actually feel how it is to not be able to breath.
                    you can tell him how sick it makes a person to go through cancer treatments - that won't work either I beat cancer 6 yrs ago -I still smoke
                    I can go on and on about what wont work- thinking in a couple of years when he discovers girls -now for your daughter - you might find a bunch of kids that won't associate with smokers- being a outcast is I am afraid what will get either one of them to stop. I know all the punishment won't stop them from smoking but not having friends will.
                    Now on the lieing part you can tell him/her- Trust is the most imporant part of life in a family- if you can't be trusted -
                    same goes with lieing ( lying)
                    To haVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR KIDS YOU MUST EARN TRUST- and they must be able to keep yours.
                    Kids are a funny bunch - they dream of having parents who they can talk to or share things with . Someone that will nicely say no but do it in a way that they know why they are told no- not just cause you said so--
                    but most important be there for them at all times-when they want to talk stop what you are doing and listen - and I mean listen hard . hear what that are telling you .
                    I have used these rules to raise my family and I am called on by the kids in our town to parent- so I must be doing something right
                    I can't tell you how good it feels to have someone elses kid call you Mom anywhere we meet I always am called on for a hug- Many nights I have gone without sleep to be here for them and I have to say -- I am proud of the kids I have.

                    Sharon

                    PS -- they will follow the examples they see you do -not what you tell them they can do.
                    Hope this helps
                    Sharon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You might want to mention to him that you have to work for your cigs and he has to pay for his own--

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Smoker,theif,lier ??

                        Well, Feel Guilty Yet ? Thats How It Works Is'nt It. He's Stolen, He Smokes, And He's Lied, And It's All Your Fault. How Does That Work ? Although You And Your Wife Are His Biggest Influence, There Are So Many Outside The Family Influences That Contribute To His Behavior. Moon Has It Right, I Think ! Who Knows, We All Try To Be Good Parents And I Think We Forget That It Is And Has Always Been An On The Job Training Kind Of Thing. If There Were A Perfect Way There Would Be No Valium Out There. As Far As Your Smoking, It's None Of Our Business, The Main Point To Me Is The Lying. Thats Real Trouble If It Isnt Resolved Between You, Your Wife And Your Son. Later On In Life His Being Truthfull To You Can Be His Only Defense Against The Finger Pointing From Others Who Will Be Accuseing Him Of Other Stuff. I Was Alwys Told, Tell Me The Truth And I'll Defend You To No End, Lie To Me,and Your On Your Own. You Have No Idea How Many Times I Depended On My Family To Stick To That. I Didnt Lie, And They Were Always There For Me. Good Luck, Rain Man

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                        • #13
                          Well alot has been said here. and I think all has some good points. the real probleam is how do we be good parents. and how can we help are kids learn the best , with out damadging them or are selfs.

                          I think every thing we or are kids do, should have a consequence. when we are the cargivers, and we have to take the consequence for not only are behaveyer. but thiers. we just have to set some limits.
                          we have to tell are kids what is exceptabale in are house, and what is not. this is mine, and that is yours. if you still from me, this will happen. and if you do that, this will happen. are you willing to take the consequence? AND STICK TOO It. Just becouse you smoke, that dosen't mean your kid will smok. just becouse you scroll saw, that dosen't meen you kid will scroll saw.
                          one of the things I just Hate in are new way of age. is we all wont to be the parent we didn't have. we can't touch are kids or they will sue us. HA, my sones said they would seue me when I cought them doing the same thing. and they new what the consequences was, they got to chose the tool shed or work.
                          Well seu me. Im going to kick you butt.Or your going to work it off , cleaning the whole yard, on your day off. they just have to have a consequence for their behaveer.how would you feel if your kid stoll cygs from your neibore. would that be differant. nope. maybe it wouldn't be cygs. but maybe a tool or a car. but they think it is. whats dads is mine. you have to teach them that other folks property is off limits.( and that inclueds yours) or they will suffer the consequences.and smoking is when you are of age. just like sex or any other adult thing. driving of sky diving. if you don't , and you let this slide. wonting to be the understanding dad that you are. they will get in way more troubale in the futurer. the punishment doesn't mean anything, other than , this is what happens when you don't respect others property. and when you lie. this is what happends. we just wont trust you.(you have to teach them to take thier OWN consequences. that you wont) I sure don't feel you should shame your child, for being curious. but still there should be a consequence. just set limmits. and (stick too it.) they will eather get more sneeky or wont to do the right thing. ( But don't for get to give good consequences for their good behavior.) that is a real biggie.(they will wont to grow up like dad, when dad said something, it was rule. an for are own good) Gosh looks like you have us on a roll. I think this is the one and most emportant thing we can do for are country. raise are kids with respect, and onerability. we have the freedome to smoke, and us gales don't have to wear a vail over are heads. we can prey like we wont to who we wont. and shop where we wont. and it all starts with are traing. are kids learn early whats important, and what to fight for. You can't stope your kids from exspiramenting. but you can give consequences. both good and bad. your friend Evie. sorry said too much. guss this is important to me too

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Superman,

                            I agree with a lot of what was said.

                            I guess the gist of it is that it's important to teach the kids that there are consequences, good ones and bad ones, for EVERYTHING we do in life.
                            That is the most important lesson that any parent can teach his kids, along don't do to others what you don't want them to do to you .
                            And this applies to parents as well, it doesn't stop because you grow up.

                            Old Mooner (we'll have to agree to disagree), yes you may enjoy your pipe, and what you put in your lungs is your problem as long as it only goes into your lungs and no one else's. Unfortunately secondary smoke is real, as is the damage it causes. Smoke has been proven to cause health problems, and it becomes a social problem because of costs and the care required for one individual that cannot be provided to another. If we ignore that we should also say that a drug (coke/pot/crack) addict should also be allowed to take his hits because he likes it. And don't say it's different because it isn't : you are putting in your body a substance (nicotine or cocaine) that alters your brain chemistry to give you a sense of pleasure. And it's harder to kick a nicotine dependency than it is to kick a cocaine dependency.

                            I absolutely condone the lying and stealing the kid has done, and even the smoking. I think there should be consequences, and the idea of letting him choose them is very good indeed, he will be harsher than the parents would be.

                            But I do think that there needs to be a good talk about the smoking habit in order to find out how bad he is hooked. If you cut him off cold turkey... well think what it would do to you. You can't forbid him to smoke, he'll do it behind your back; you can forbid him to smoke in front of you if it offends you too much.

                            No two parents will react the same: what we share are opinions, you need to raise your kids your way. My initial response wasn't to put the blame on you, it was to make you realize that you shouldn't be surprised that your kid smokes since you do and set an example in your house. The rest depends on your family values, the way you raised your kids so far, the examples you give them, the friends you let them keep, the sort of TV/movies you let them watch, how you supervise their time online...

                            Parenting is not an easy job, there are no set rules and you also have to factor in social influence: I'm Canadian not American, British or Australian that means my way of thinking is different from those parents. I'm from a suburb of Montreal, I'm not from Vancouver, Halifax, Toronto or New-York, my way of thinking is different from those parents. That will also influence the outcome of your crisis.

                            And I meant my wishes of good luck, I truly hope your family comes out of this crisis closer and lovingly.

                            Respectfully,
                            Marcel
                            http://marleb.com
                            DW788. -Have fun in the shop or it isn't a hobby anymore.

                            NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Marcel you are so right. but on one thing. smoking. I think we let are kids do all kinds of things, we think is normale. like xmas candy eating. how many of us are obies. If we are going to singale out smoking. why not breathing. car fumes. holliday eating. and just fast foods. we are all to blame. even tough I smoke. I do so in a private place. not to let others around me suffer. but when I drive. how in the heck. can i do that without poluting are atmessfier. we are so quick to judg. when we areselfs polute. just throwing out are garbadg. do we take car not to put plactic in are trash. or other harmful stuff. do we tacke cair not to buy things that are to fast. to throw away like papper plates. or plactic spoons and forlks. or is that to small to think about. how about poison sprays we put on are plants. or the oil we put in are cars. where do we put it. or do we dump it in the outer lands. there is just alot we have to think about , than are kids smoking. they know what we are doing to thier world to come. and they are smart. we can only teach them what we have learnd , and not smart enouph to controle areselfs. and may be. they might have a answer to what we didn't give enouph attiotion to . But we still need to teach them consiquences. that they will learn good. and teach us a few things back. sorry but this has me going. if we wont to make a diffearnts. we need to think about what the heck we are doing. and why. Evie

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