Free Patterns?

[Old Mooner]

This has nothing to do with copyrights. There are at least two Microsoft "groups" dedicated to the creation and distribution of free patterns. I belong to both. The latest issue of the publication from the Scroll Saw Association of the World (SAW) contains an article by a person who makes patterns "for a living" and that person is just "pitching a fit" about the fact that there are patterns to be had for free. In fact, there a couple contained in the same publication (I thought that was neat). I, for one, think that if you can find a free pattern, go for it. I also believe in free enterprise and "making a buck" as I have said before. If you can produce a pattern that the rest of us are willing to spend our money on, then more power to you. However, don't cry about the competition. There is already too much protectionism in this country (U.S.). Jeff Zaffino and Charles Dearing sell patterns from their web sites, and through various and sundry outlets like "Scroller," "Wildwood Designs," and "Steebar." Their patterns are great and I am willing to buy them because I can't find any of that quality (or difficulty) for free. That is the way it should be.
Moon

[Sparhawk]

Sounds to me like those who are "pitching a fit" need to keep their noses out of others business. I personally am grateful to those who are willing to create art and give it out to others. I am also grateful for those creating patterns for profit who create some amazing things. I think there is plenty of room for both in the scrollsaw world. I'd like to know who that person is. I'm not a member of SAW so don't get the newsletter. I find it funny and sad that so many scrollsaw projects are made to give as gifts but someone would frown on someone giving a scrollsaw pattern as a gift.

My $0.02 worth.

[Gill]

Scrollsaw Association of the World? Don't make me laugh. There's a much more international flavour* here than at SAW. Everything at SAW is so very American. Here we've got Americans, Brits, Scandinavians, Aussies, Canadians, Kiwis, Spaniards and probably quite a few other nationalities.

If somebody from SAW is complaining about an aspect of scrolling, I certainly wouldn't take it as being either representative or significant. For goodness sake, their forum has 161 members - ours has over 2,000!

*See? I used the British spelling, just to confirm the point .

Gill

[Jediscroller]

The original article is posted on Saw's Website in the forums. I don't have the link handy. Rick does make some valid points in the article regarding copyrights but these I think get lost in the tone of the article. I can't speak for Rick, but I don't think it was his intention to insult those of us who design and share our patterns free of charge (even though many of us took it that way).
While I agree that Jeff has great patterns Mooner, I would like to point out that some of the designers on the free sites (Ted Buzzelli and Rick Gray in particular) put out some awesome and extremely challenging patterns. I know Buzz has patterns for sale in Scroller LTD (take a look at his covered bridge) and Wooden Teddy Bear yet he still shares patterns on FSP. Rick doesn't sell his patterns as he does it for the love of it (his can be seen on AFSP). I have cuttings from both of these designers in my album here on the forum (as well as a few of my own slightly detailed patterns). Personally, when I look for a pattern to cut, I check the sites, check the catalogues and pick the one that matches what I'm looking for whether I get it for free or have to pay for it. If both of these fail, then I design it myself.
SAW does have members all over the world Gill, but it was started in the U.S. so I'm not sure what you mean by it being American leaning. I know several of the board members use Hegners or Excaliburs, neither of which are made in the US, hehehe. I believe there's also several SAW sponsored events in Europe as well.

Kevin

[PiALaModem]

It is the case that the SAW list of local chapters doesn't require a column for "Country", and the states represented don't include any in New England. I think the "of the World" part was more to make it spell "saw" than anything else. Who would bother with a group called "SAPUS" -- Scrollsaw Association of Part of the United States?

I think I'll just go watch reruns of the World Series.

[Gill]

Hi Kevin

Take it from someone who isn't American - SAW has a very heavy American predisposition. There again, that's only to be expected if most of the membership is American.

What irks me is that it purports to be international but you've got to really scour the site to find aspects that honour this claim. For example, there should be pages written for non-English speaking communities. There's an awful lot of very good scrolling going on in places such as India, Italy, Spain and France yet the forum makes no concession to their language requirements. All the advertisements carried on the site are American; if it was truly international then manufacturers from other nations would want to have their products advertised on the site too.

To my mind, SAW is far too parochial for anyone to seriously consider it as being international. And if it can't get that basic tenet right, why should anyone take other aspects of it seriously?

Gill

[Jediscroller]

Valid points Gill and Piala. Perhaps you should ask the SAW board about the lack of translation capabilities and lack of clubs in the Northeast. I see that you're from Norwalk Piala, I live in Seymour, not too far away (well, compared to the distance to Gill). Seymour is just north of New Haven for reference. It does seem like the midwest US has the majority of scrollers and scroller clubs. Perhaps the CT yuppies are just too busy to be bothered, LOL. You're fortunate in that the only woodworking club in CT is in your backyard (if I recall correctly; it's either Norwalk or Norwich, I always get the 2 confused). As far as SAW being international or not, I guess it's open to discussion. My buddy Brett isn't a member of this forum (or Saw's for that matter), but is a member of SAW, he lives in Australia. Judging a groups success by the the number of members of a discussion forum isn't really the best way to decide. The highest volume scrolling message group I belong to (well over 1000 messages a week) only has a little of 400 members (but growing ).

Kevin

[Jediscroller]

Here's the link to the article.
http://www.saw-online.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=167

Kevin

[Woodbutcher68]

Gill,
There is a feature on the SAW site to convert the language from English to eight different languages. I think that the idea of starting SAW was to unite all scrollers from around the world to share information. It won't be an easy task, but it could be done. The only drawback would the static from people who are down on Americans. There are members from other countries and they have listed scrollsaw events in some of those countries.

[Gill]

I can't disagree with the fair points that have been made in defence of SAW's international credentials. It's just that the name and the way the site is laid out gives me an impression that SAW purports to be an international governing body, an umbrella organisation something like the WHO or FIFA. (Okay, I appreciate that the notion of anyone governing scrollers is absurd, but nevertheless... ) If SAW does have those aspirations, I think it should be looking more to scrollers in countries that aren't represented and providing them with online facilities that are more suited to their needs. If it doesn't have those aspirations, then I think it ought to take steps to remove the ambiguity.

I still think that this forum is the most internationally accessible forum for scrollers that I've encountered. Give yourselves a pat on the back, guys and gals .

Gill

[CanadianScroller]

I still think that this forum is the most internationally accessible forum for scrollers that I've encountered. Give yourselves a pat on the back, guys and gals .

Gill

Well said Gill, I hope we all act like ambassadors to the scrolling community and welcome anyone from anywhere to share the collective knowledge and dare I say wisdom, that this board has to offer.

I feel if we offer all the information we can, scrollers can separate the wheat from the chaff themselves. If not on the forum, by emailing some one and asking them outright.

[BobD]

I feel if we offer all the information we can, scrollers can separate the wheat from the chaff themselves. If not on the forum, by emailing some one and asking them outright.

Well said Carl!

Here Here and a cheerio <grin>

Bob

[PiALaModem]

Back to the "Free Patterns" issue, now that we have International Relations all settled...

Thanks for posting the link, Jedi, it was very interesting to see it. In a lot of ways, the complaint expressed is like that of the music business seeing the Internet and cheap electronic technology tearing away what was once an easily controlled market. Not just by copyright infringement, either; music being released electronically is bypassing the cd-pressing and distribution infrastructure of the music biz and offering an alternative that really challenges how the music companies make their money.

If you want a pattern, it's not the piece of paper that you want, it's the information that's on the paper, how to cut the wood to make the object. It has become cheap and easy both to get and to give information of that type over the internet.

When it cost a lot to produce (physically) and distribute a pattern, there was a self-editing process by which makers of patterns decided whether it was worth the money and effort needed to publish a pattern. And most patterns that got widely distributed were done for commercial reasons. Now you can publish your pattern with the click of a mouse, and there is a flood of good, bad, and indifferent stuff out there, much of it for free.

I think the writer wasn't whining that others might want to give away what he's trying to sell. I think it is the general lowering of quality that he repeatedly decries. It really means that people are posting stuff they would in the past have kept to themselves, since it would cost money to print, advertise, and distribute it, and now they can just throw it out there without thinking.

Frankly, if he is, as he seems to claim to be, an artist producing work of high quality, he needn't worry too much. It's only the mediocre that is driven out by the goshawful. Some musicians are acknowledging a fait accompli and focussing their recordings as promotions for their touring rather than the other way around as in the past. Patterns rationally are a side effect of producing actual objects - as recordings to a large extent are simulacra of live performances. Focussing on making patterns as an end in itself might be a dead end for any but the most talented -- go out and cut the wood!

As a Parthian shot, much of what I said above about patterns is equally true about ideas and opinions, especially the part about editing.

[Old Mooner]

PiaLa--
What you say is probably true of the vast majority of "home made" patterns, but I challenge anyone to find better (higher quality/content) patterns than some of those by a person called "honeyjinx" and one known as "Arpop" that appear on a couple MSN groups--"AbsolutelyFreeScrollSawPatterns" and "FreeScrollSawPatterns." Most of the offerings on these two sites are "top notch" and you can find things that aren't generally available in catalogs--automobiles, aircraft, etc--in case you are bored with clocks, Christmas ornaments, and "cutesie" stuff. Anyway, if the quality is too low for anyone's taste, they can always avoid the freebies.
Moon

[Jediscroller]

I 100% agree with you on those sites Moon! The best part is that the majority of designers on both sites are more than willing to help you learn to design your own as well. Had it not been for the folks on these sites I would've never learned to design my own. Some of the lesser quality patterns (I hesitate to use that terminology) are from folks learning to design patterns. The bottom line is in the cutting. While some may not be as clean as those you can purchase, the finished cuttings are every bit as good as from any purchased pattern. One thing I like about these is that there's no limitation on what you can try to make a pattern out of (as long as it's legal) or how detailed it can be. I regularly post patterns on both and am a assistant manager on one of them. You mentioned Arpop and Honey, but there are tons of awesome designers sharing patterns on these sites. If I tried naming them all I would surely forget someone so suffice it to say there's plenty. Hey, a certain fellow from a certain magazine is even cutting one of my patterns that I've shared so they can't be all that bad.

Kevin